Makeup, why and how.

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Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:29 am

I thought I'd make a thread on makeup. It's something which is actually amazingly helpful, yet there's not a lot of discussion on it. I intend it as part tutorial, part discussion, and maybe part me learning something too :)

I'm not a professional makeup artist by any stretch of the imagination. But I have read at least a dozen books on makeup (and forgotten at least 2/3 of what i've read :P ). And I am reasonably pro at 'art', and I think that's related & helpful. So, I guess I feel like I'm some limbo between makeup guru and makeup n00b, but probably know enough to be helpful :)

hmmmm, ok, first WHY MAKEUP?
(tldr: To look good silly!)
long answer... even infants respond more positively to faces with more distinctly visible features (ie: makeup), and there are some very highbrow studies which show the efficacy of makeup in changing how people perceive and respond to you. Also, makeup levels the playing field between those who are born looking perfect, and those who need to twist reality's arm to pull off the illusion. And who more needs to do that than us eh?

actually that wasn't very long at all. not for me... ok, some visual elaboration:

some people (guys) claim that you don't need any makeup... they are full of crap. What they *mean* when they say that, is that super heavy makeup, applied unskillfully, looks bad. They generally completely fail to notice makeup when it is used correctly, even if it's fairly heavy.
Image

even Angelina Jolie needs makeup to look her best..
Image

makeup really changes how you look, and how people will respond to your appearance:
Image

convinced yet?

cuz if not, I have about 20 more images like the ones above... don't make me wear out the img linker :P

And makeup is not something just for people in their 20's...
Image
Image
it's for every woman.



if you are still not convinced of the virtues of makeup...
Image
nuff said

sooo, yeah... makeup... stay tuned, more to follow!
Last edited by Dakini on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Simone_Violette » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:40 am

Awesome thread! Count me in :)
I'm a makeup enthusiast, really enjoy playing with it, and sometimes I really do a great job :lol:

And yeah, about the 'Guys don't like makeup' thing... They wouldn't be able to recognize naturally done makeup even if it beat them on the head with a brick and screamed 'Look at me, look at me!' :lol:
It also applies to hair and nails - if it's just an enchancement of natural features and nothing overdone, the untrained male eye won't even notice you're wearing anything or done anything to your hair.
I once had false nails, but not overly long or painted in a neon color, for a date. Somehow we started talking about women and makeup and he mentioned how fake nails on a woman make her look like a witch or a certain lady of the night, to which I replied by demonstrating that my nails are indeed false. He was left speechless.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:52 am

myth number one: "makeup tips & tricks which work for one person, will work for everyone."

truth: Everybody looks different, and has very different needs in terms of what approaches will work best for them. We have differently shaped faces, with different skin tones, hair colors, age, overall sense of style, etc. There is no set 'right way', you'll have to find your path through the mess of conflicting ideas & approaches.

sorry, no cool images to show what I mean :P



myth number two: "heavy makeup is bad"

truth: "bad makeup is bad, if it's heavy, it's just more noticeably bad. heavy itself isn't bad."

This is true even for transsexuals... Drag queens and transvestites with their flair for the dramatic, and their lack of concern for passing, have created a social situation where many in trans circles view heavier makeup as having the effect of "anti-passing", because it reminds people so much of drag queens, and it can make us stand out in a negative, unhelpful way.

I would argue, that certain dramatic looks have this effect, but significant use of makeup in and of itself is not problematic. It's only a problem when it's done unskillfully, or in a manner which ignores fashion trends in favor of a 'fantasy' look. Also, it's important to know your setting... is this makeup for going to a job interview? the corner shop at noon? a nightclub? are you wearing it with a tshirt and shorts? or a black cocktail dress?

drag queens/TV's have a habit of mimicking "over the top" looks, like this:
Image
that's an image of a ciswoman, but she could easily pass for a drag queen. Really that kind of approach to makeup is intended only for theatrical use. The problem with her makeup is not the quantity, but what is being done with it.

this makeup
Image
is no less heavy handed, but it fits her skin tone, hair color, attire, and social setting, and it looks "good". Personally I think she could stand to go a little lighter on the eyeliner, or choose a slightly darker lip color with more defined edges (EITHER would work, i'm only noting that her eyes overpower her lips a bit), but she's doing 'heavy makeup' right. Particularly since the setting appears as though she may be public speaking or getting her picture taken, both of which call for heavier makeup than normal.

***tip: When you are viewed from a distance, or you are photographed, half of your makeup disappears. Apply it accordingly.
Last edited by Dakini on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:03 am

Simone_Violette wrote:Awesome thread! Count me in :)

:mrgreen:

I've had a guy tell me how great I look without makeup, after I spent 2+ hours doing a seriously heavy makeover... I think guys get their impression of how women look strictly from looking at magazines. "Why yes honey, I have perfect skin tone, and healthy color in my cheeks and long dark lashes, and full red wet looking lips all the time" oy...

I have a line I intend to share with a plastic surgeon one day "I want to pass flawlessly, after being stranded on a deserted island for a month, naked." hehe. But since we're not on a deserted island currently... may as well use the 1001 illusions available :)
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:01 am

One thing which often tends to make our (transsexuals') makeup approach differ from the styles some ciswomen use, is the supraorbital ridge:
Image
they seem to label it the supraorbital foramen here, but the ridge which protrudes along that portion of a male skull, is the object of interest to us at the moment.

This ridge gives men the 'heavy brow bone' look, with deeper set eyes, and more of an 'actual' shadow cast above the eyes (from light being blocked by the overhang).

here's how an especially prominent supraorbital ridge looks with flesh on it:
Image

Notice that it casts a shadow above the eyes. The brow bone tends to be most prominent nearer the middle of the face, so it casts more of a shadow above the inner eyes, and at the upper end of the nose. The area in shadow follows a relatively trapezoidal shape:
Image

Now, with any luck, or with pubescent age HRT intervention, your brow bone will not be as prominent and obvious as this fellow's. But if you have even 'some' of the normal male supraorbital ridge, you should avoid applying any makeup which will further darken this region, as it will exaggerate your masculinity.

Personally, I take the opposite approach, and apply a bit of lightening in that area, particularly across the top of the nose, and in the deepest area above the inner eye. By the way, this approach of applying makeup which is lighter than your natural skintone, is called highlighting.

The one downside to my approach, is that if you light my face from underneath, the lighting effects on the contours are reversed, and it can make my face look extra masculine. To be fair, most people look bad with under-lighting, or being lit from directly overhead, so I don't worry too much about it. But if i'm sitting at a table which is bathed in sunlight, or I'm in the shade near a body of reflective water, etc. Then my highlighting might work against me a bit.


Here is the thing you need to understand about highlighting, and shading (shadow), when you are applying value gradients to the face (changes in lightness/darkness, apart from color):
Image


There is one other thing that you must remember as well, though I lack a cool graphic for it... in general, highlights (areas of light) visually project outwards towards the viewer, while areas of dark recede from the viewer. This will not ALWAYS work, but that is a visual illusion trend to keep in mind.

So if I were going to copy the below eyeshadow style, I would avoid using the dark shadow in the red-zone:
Image
as that would exaggerate one of my face's masculine features. It may work for the girl in the image, if she has a very feminine face and feels more attractive with a slightly more androgenous eye shading, to contrast her heavy eyeliner, etc.

Also, I would avoid her approach of using a fairly monotone black eyelid... it makes the whole eye recede in the face, giving her the appearance of deep set eyes. This may work for her if she has very shallow set eyes, but for anyone with an XY disposition, you'll want some highlighting on the center of the eyelid, to bring the eye back forward.

And last but not least, I would avoid her use of harsh straight angular lines, as they tend to look more theatrical, and give a masculine edge to things.

Here is how I would "adapt" that eyeshadow look for my own face:
Image
I would argue that it's just as much makeup overall, I've just avoided darkening under the brow bone, and used a lighter shade on the eyelid to bring the eye back forward more, while softening the hard eyeliner edge. The model depicted may look good both ways, but on my face, this last image would look a million times better than the way she did it. I suspect she was going for a dramatic look with deep set eyes and artificially pronounced browbone... an 'andro' look, works for her, not for me.

Incidentally, by playing with the light & dark around the eyelid, you can redefine your eyelid shape, giving you the appearance of larger eyes, making them more round, more narrow, adjusting their apparent setting closer or father apart, etc.

Also, worth mentioning, this eye shadow look is probably too 'loud' for daytime use. And would NOT go well with any cheery springtime hues of lipstick. or pastel clothing for that matter.
Last edited by Dakini on Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:30 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Sage » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:19 am

.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:52 am

The evil faries...

Makeup wears off over time! It wears off on... nothing at all (evil faries).

Even without touching your face, somehow, makeup disappears over time. Better makeup does this "less" but it's a universal makeup problem. Obviously your lip color will respond to how many times you wrap your lips around the long neck of a bottle of coca cola... but even your blush will mysteriously disappear over time.

My solution: Apply makeup slightly more heavy than you want for your end result, and then go over the whole face with a translucent powder to soften the makeup's look. That way, as the evil fairies come to steal color from your face through the day, and you shed makeup, you will be revealing some additional color from underneath the outermost layer, giving your makeup much better stamina through the day and into the evening.

For refreshing lip color, this is where lip liner comes in handy.. if you line your lips with a lip liner which has a more lasting color than the lipstick/lipgloss, then it's much MUCH easier to apply some fresh lipstick without having to worry about perfectly touching up the edges of your lips. You merely need to fill in the lips with fresh color. Many makeup tutorials suggest using a lip shade for the lip liner which is slightly darker than your lipstick. But personally I prefer using a matching shade, as I don't care for the look of a harsh outline. Granted the darker outline does create a visual "plumping" effect, but I don't think it's worth it. I am very happy with the natural shape of my lips, so that may be tainting my view on this. I prefer my lip makeup to appear slightly more casual, so a matching lip liner gives me the obsessive perfectionist edge shaping, so as to show off perfect lips, without the appearance of having done obsessive perfectionist edge shaping :P

I don't think "less is more", but I do think that giving the appearance that you did less to your face than you actually did, makes your makeup more subtle in it's potency ;)
Last edited by Dakini on Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:18 am

Eyeshadow 'under' the eye...

Generally, this is a situation where less really is almost always more.
Here's a case of lots of eyeshadow extending well under the eye:
Image
It looks ok... on her... But it will make her look older (not a problem if she's like 20, but for many of us...). Also the darkness under the eyes tends to give off a "tired" appearance, mimicking bags under the eyes. It's a 'sunken eye' look, which is probably ideal if you have bug eyes, but most MtF transsexuals have deeper set eyes than their cisgender female counterparts, so as a rule of thumb, "most" of you won't want to use eyeshadow techniques which give a deep set eye appearance.

That's a bit tricky, since shading in general tends to make the eyes recede... but you can work with it, just avoid finished results which make the whole eye pull away from the viewer, which usually has to do with putting some light on the eyelid.

Over the course of a day, as the evil fairies steal makeup from your face, they dribble a little of it, so it will tend to extend further down over time, exaggerating the under-eye shadows. It can get pretty zombie-like. Personally I already have dark circles under my eyes, which make me look like a zombie in the morning, I use some concealer to hide this so that I can hunt down some brains more stealthily. I certainly don't need any additional darkening down under my eyes, short of aiming for a halloween costume.

This eye:
Image
is an example of how you might apply "some" eyeshadow under the eyes, without going too overboard.

For less dramatic normal daytime makeup, you will probably avoid putting any eyeshadow under the eye at all. Or just a hint of it at the outer corner. Also for normal daytime wear, you probably won't draw the eyeliner all the way across the bottom eyelid (just on the outer half or so). Again though, this is all going to vary for different people with differently shaped faces.

Generally your eyeliner accentuates your eyelashes. While your eyeshadow shapes your face around the eye opening, defining your eyelids and general ocular setting. Your eyelashes on the lower lid are less pronounced, and the lower lashes are practically nonexistant near the inner corner of the eye... so a less heavy handed eyeliner on the lower lids, particularly the inner side, looks more natural and less artificial or odd.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Simone_Violette » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:33 am

Dakini wrote:
Incidentally, by playing with the light & dark around the eyelid, you can redefine your eyelid shape, giving you the appearance of larger eyes, making them more round, more narrow, adjusting their apparent setting closer or father apart, etc.


Yes! Exactly this.
Also, when it comes to the brow ridge, it's important to highlight it but keep it matte. If it's still shiny, the real contours show more, and it's obvious that it's just makeup. The only exclusion to this matte thing should be cheekbones, where it's nice to have a little radiant skin glow, also the tip of the nose :)

Dakini wrote:Makeup wears off over time! It wears off on... nothing at all (evil faries).



Setting powder seems to help with wearing off a lot... If set properly (but not too dry and flaky) makeup can last for a long time. Especially when using a makeup setting spray, which is a bit dewy and works even better than powder.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sun Jun 29, 2014 10:36 am

hehe, when it's really hot out, i've used dry-finish sunblock spray as a setting spray. also helps keep me from bursting into flames :P
I have yet to use a real setting spray though.
I think i need to hit up amazon for some more cosmetics :)

Really good point about the highlighting under the brow ridge... i was actually using a slightly luminescent tint there, but i'm going to switch to matte as per your suggestion, makes perfect sense :) (and also, I have learned something already! this thread is going to kick ass :) )
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Jess Renee » Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:05 pm

OMG! I love this thread! I learned more about makeup in the past 5 mins than I have since I started this! Great idea!! :D

I have a couple questions.

1: I'm still fighting the 5 o'clock shadow as electrolysis is taking FOREVER! So what do you recommend for concealer? Something that will last and cover the damn dark stain?

2: What choices do we have for really good long lasting makeup that isn't horrible for our skin either? I have heard organic makeup is a waste of time, but do we at least have some paraben free, or less toxic makeup to choose from that is also actually good?
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:50 pm

Hey all!

I have been working on my makeup ever since my friend came over and did mine for the first time. It was such a profound experience for me, I actually broke down. So yeah, makeup is very important for me. I would like some suggestions to maybe help diminish my "heavy brow." I would like to show you all what I look like without makeup, then with makeup, and I want HONEST critiques! I really want to get my "style" worked out before I start going out regularly. I don't want to be the "frosting-face freak," so any suggestions are welcome. Thanks!

Without makeup:
Image






And then, with makeup:
Image

Again, any critiques or suggestions are welcome... I won't get offended, promise!

I also would like to know if anyone has any "tricks" for hiding the ridge where my mustache would be. It drives me nuts!

(And yes, right now the bandana is necessary. My male patternn baldness has wiped the top of my head out, so until I get a wig...)


EDIT:
I hadn't looked very hard at the whole thread apparently, because I missed the while post about lightening certain areas to diminish the brow. I experimented, and used an "Illuminator" that came in an "smoky eye" color kit, and I think it really made a big difference. I really love the "smokey eye" look, but I don't think it's ging to work for me. :cry: Tell me what you think... and as a side note, is there a way to get the "smokey eye" look with lighter colors, so I can still get the look without making me look like a Neanderthal?


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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Simone_Violette » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:56 pm

Jess Renee wrote:OMG! I love this thread! I learned more about makeup in the past 5 mins than I have since I started this! Great idea!! :D

I have a couple questions.

1: I'm still fighting the 5 o'clock shadow as electrolysis is taking FOREVER! So what do you recommend for concealer? Something that will last and cover the damn dark stain?

2: What choices do we have for really good long lasting makeup that isn't horrible for our skin either? I have heard organic makeup is a waste of time, but do we at least have some paraben free, or less toxic makeup to choose from that is also actually good?


Welcome to the thread, glad you liked it :)
Sorry, I can't help you with those questions. I never could afford higher quality stuff. I could reccomend you Max Factor's Pan Stick as a concealer for the 5 o'clock shadow, though, but it may not work if it's very dark. And also, it's very bad for skin -.- Sometimes it causes me terrible breakouts.

eindecker wrote:Hey all!


Hey there!
That's great progress with makeup we're seeing there.
The only thing I'd change would be the eyebrows. A bit thinner and shaped better - somehow they seem 'droopy' now and drag the whole eye down.
An upward 'cat eye' eyeliner flick with shortening the outer brow and shaping it more upwards would be very flattering! :)
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby dreamin » Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:23 am

Jess Renee wrote:1: I'm still fighting the 5 o'clock shadow as electrolysis is taking FOREVER! So what do you recommend for concealer? Something that will last and cover the damn dark stain?

I'm personally going to opt for either the dermablend cover or colortration (leaning towards the colortration due to ease of application) as part of my next makeup haul. This top 3 talks a little about those two, as well as a MAC full-coverage foundation (but I'm personally not into cake-based makeup).
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby SarahElizabeth » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:37 am

Make up is time consuming and for many of us a true challenge, but what a difference it makes. It allows the beauty that is inside come out for all to see. :)
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Sage » Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:57 am

.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby grrl_aex » Wed Jul 02, 2014 12:27 am

Sage wrote:tattoo concealer works well


Dermablend will cover _any_thing. "Camo Confessions"-check it
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby SarahBear » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:39 am

Omg how did I miss this thread the other day? I am going to love this thread. Personally I really enjoy makeup, it helps sooo much; both visually and mentally.

Anyways, I want to suggest a topic. It was kinda touched on at points, but contouring/highlighting. I am not exactly an expert in this area, so I will leave it up to Dakini or Simone as they seem to know more about it than I do, but basically the concept is to highlight or darken areas of the face to either accentuate or change the shape of the facial features; like the nose, cheeks, brow, forehead, and chin.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Sage » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:37 am

.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Jess Renee » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:15 am

At one time in my life I was a graphic artist, I can totally confirm what they are saying about colors and shadows, tricks with light...

I can't believe I didn't think of it before, but none the less, I'll be using it now... :wink:
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Mystical.Nicole » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:11 pm

I'm sooo happy I've been goth since 15 years old, stealing mommy's makeup on & off since 12. :) now, being 23 years old, from this post I realized how much it would suck if I hadn't gone goth (it's really a 'born with' kinda thing) Of course though I have always experimented with various makeups besides black/grey/charcoal/foundation/etc. But, I am colorblind (green/red vision) and so therefore I lack the capability to really excel in colored makeup...

I don't even know what my exact skin tone is? :/ sucks.. every time I switch brands of foundation I have to roughly try 2 assimilate the shades and properly choose... Though I'd think I'm quite probably a medium-light golden olive shade. Though with maybelline I choose pure beige, remington is 240? Idk, I'm southern European descent & am unsure how 2 upload pics...
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:28 pm

Simone_Violette wrote:
The only thing I'd change would be the eyebrows. A bit thinner and shaped better - somehow they seem 'droopy' now and drag the whole eye down.
An upward 'cat eye' eyeliner flick with shortening the outer brow and shaping it more upwards would be very flattering! :)


Yeah, my eyebrows have been an object of contention since that very first night my friend made me up. She wanted to straight up pluck them out completely... said they were too straight and that no amount of plucking was going to help. But right now my transition isn't completely public, so drawing on my eyebrows and heading to the construction site isn't going to work... I've compromised and shaped them as best I can, and finally remembered to pick up an eyebrow pencil when I was out. Hopefully I'll get a chance to practice my makeup tonight... I'll post a pic if I do. Thanks for the suggestions and being able to see past my ugly mug to look at my makeup! :lol:
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:52 am

Just wanted you guys to know I haven't abandoned this thread, just been kinda busy lately, and I've been working on some more content for this.
right now though, my brain is way too groggy to type something long and have it make sense goodly.
but, "coming soon: lips!"
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:37 pm

Ok, LIPS!
*pause to upload lots of visual aids*

ok here's some lips
Image
they're pretty good lips, not the best, but pretty good. but they can be so much cooler!

uhh... lemme organize my thoughts about what there is to talk about here... there's:
lip preparation
shape
gradient
saturation
value
shine
and the lipstick mortal sin
oh, and translucent coloring

lip preparation:
you don't want chapped lips. if you have any dry skin stuff going on, lipstick will make it 10x more obvious, and not look good. you'll want to exfoliate if you have something like that, and also possibly consider a lip moisturizer overnight to prevent it.

I usually can exfoliate pretty well with just a little bit of tooth brushing when I'm doing that anyway. But they make dedicated products for doing it, like a sugar scrub, etc. A touch of chapstick or something the night before can prevent a lot of problems.

Also, you *can* apply foundation to your lips to have more control over the finite details of shaping them and coloring them. but I tend to think that's rarely useful.

lip shaping:
when you are applying color to your lips, as long as you are not using a translucent tint (like a tinted lip gloss, get into that later) then you are effectively replacing the natural coloration of your lips... which means that you can fine tune where that color ends around the edges of your lips, changing the apparent outer shape of your lips.

Now your lips already have a shape, and if you deviate too much, it'll be noticeable because the texture and contour of your lip surface won't match around the edges. This is especially noticeable with more glossy looks. So, we're talking subtle differences in shape, "fine tuning", not any dramatic change.

you can do things like adjust the cupid's bow to be more pronounced:
Image

or more subtle:
Image

Personally, my face seems to like it if I thicken the outer portions of my lower lip a bit like so:
Image

How you shape your lips is... going to be really up to you, and your face. I don't think there is a right way. You'll have to experiment.

Gradient:
or using more than one shade value (darkness) blended to give the appearance of contour...

If you darken one area more than another, and blend the transition between the two, you end up with the appearance of a contour or 3-dimensional shape. This is pretty much identical in concept to the eye shadow basics... dark areas recede away from the viewer, light areas protrude.

here's lips with just lip liner applied, blended into the lips, but not fully covering them with color (only advisable with a natural lip liner color which is not too far from your lips' natural hue) :
Image

here is the lips fully filled in with a lipstick that matches the liner color:
Image

and here is lipstick filled in, with a somewhat darker shade of lip liner:
Image

Notice that in both cases where the outer edge of the lips is darker in shade, the lips take on a more contoured appearance. Often, that's considered a helpful illusion, so many guides will say to use a lip liner slightly darker than the lipstick shade you are using.

Personally? I rarely do this. On my own face, I feel like a darker outline creates an especially harsh edge to the lips, which (to me) doesn't look as good on my face, with my particular lip shape, skin tone, etc. I feel I look best with matching lip liner and lipstick, usually in a hue and look very similar to the picture 2 pics up. But using a gradient is a common approach, which you should at least try, and understand how to work with. Also worth mentioning, a darker outline can somewhat disguise slightly more aggressive lip shaping (extending lip color past the natural area of coloration).

I do think that if you use a light/dark gradient though, you need to blend it on the inward sides of it, not just make a hard line, like I have seen some do. I would blend it before applying lipstick, so that if your lipstick wears off, you aren't left with the obvious sharp liner edge.

too be continued...
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby dreamin » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:21 pm

that's amazing work there Dakini! God you're lips are truly magnificent. I love the finer deets you mentioned :!: I never paid attention to the subtle movement at the cupid's bow and lower line AT ALL. IOW I'd always just made sure to be right at the line for fear of the "Pamela Anderson" effect. but you showed me you really can play with it (some) if you're careful. good, good, good stuff :!: *^.^*
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby M-C » Wed Jul 09, 2014 4:26 am

So, here's a question, related to this.

Is makeup anything like drawing? Because it has always looked like drawing on your face to me, and I cannot draw unless I spend absolutely hours, and then it's kinda meh.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:38 am

dreamin wrote:that's amazing work there Dakini! God you're lips are truly magnificent. I love the finer deets you mentioned :!: I never paid attention to the subtle movement at the cupid's bow and lower line AT ALL. IOW I'd always just made sure to be right at the line for fear of the "Pamela Anderson" effect. but you showed me you really can play with it (some) if you're careful. good, good, good stuff :!: *^.^*

Well, those aren't my lips. i just grabbed those lips off the internet, and applied makeup to them in photoshop to illustrate the visual effects I wanted to portray. as much as i like makeup, i'm good enough with PS that it's just quicker & easier to make the images. especially when a camera doesn't always pick up the details you want to portray.

To be fair though, and bluntly narcissistic, my lips are one of my best features, so while those aren't my lips, I wouldn't say they're better than mine, they're really similar to the pic i used ;)

the pamela anderson effect... yeah, but she had so much collagen shot into her lips over the years that her lips are probably a bad example. If you do mess with the outer edge slightly, it has to be just that, "slight". like a millimeter extra here, a millimeter less there. You can't make full lips out of thin lips, but you can adjust the contours a little.

myself I stick pretty close to my natural lip border, because I rather like my natural lip border ;) but if i stretch it just a hair on the outer lower lip, so that it looks plumper across the sides of the bottom lip, it gives my lips a bit more of a modern model look.

M-C wrote:So, here's a question, related to this.

Is makeup anything like drawing? Because it has always looked like drawing on your face to me, and I cannot draw unless I spend absolutely hours, and then it's kinda meh.

yes and no.
it's more like... taking a tracing (your face already has shape), and then adding some color, gradients, & darker lines to it. So you don't have to be able to draw a face from scratch, just take a generic face tracing, and add some pizazz.

It's immensely useful if you know how the elements of visual design function though (which isn't rocket science, i've shown some of that in the posts above ;) )
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby M-C » Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:48 am

Dakini wrote:Well, those aren't my lips. i just grabbed those lips off the internet, and applied makeup to them in photoshop to illustrate the visual effects I wanted to portray. as much as i like makeup, i'm good enough with PS that it's just quicker & easier to make the images. especially when a camera doesn't always pick up the details you want to portray.
M-C wrote:So, here's a question, related to this.

Is makeup anything like drawing? Because it has always looked like drawing on your face to me, and I cannot draw unless I spend absolutely hours, and then it's kinda meh.

yes and no.
it's more like... taking a tracing (your face already has shape), and then adding some color, gradients, & darker lines to it. So you don't have to be able to draw a face from scratch, just take a generic face tracing, and add some pizazz.

It's immensely useful if you know how the elements of visual design function though (which isn't rocket science, i've shown some of that in the posts above ;) )


Firstly, those are some damn good Photoshop skills. :o
I can colour between the lines like a good little 5 year old if that's close enough :lol:
And I can trace too, I used to do that a lot in primary school. I swear I stole like a years supply of tracing paper tracing images out of books into massive collages in year 6.

That's a little stress taken off my future, thanks. For the curious, look into spacial dysgraphia. It's under the same tree that spawns dyslexia.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Simone_Violette » Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:23 am

Dakini, that's an awesome post, or rather should I say, article quality text on lips! Very clear & practical info, thank you!
I've also been thinking about contributing more to the thread. I've always wanted to do a contouring tutorial, or a general facial feminization makeup tutorial, so I'll probably work on that in the near future.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:07 am

Simone_Violette wrote:Dakini, that's an awesome post, or rather should I say, article quality text on lips! Very clear & practical info, thank you!
I've also been thinking about contributing more to the thread. I've always wanted to do a contouring tutorial, or a general facial feminization makeup tutorial, so I'll probably work on that in the near future.

do eeeet! :)
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:59 am

Just my luck... it turns out the clearest pic of my face is also the one where I hadn't put a shirt on yet. :oops:
Just focus on my face and let me know what I can do to improve my makeup. I think I've got my eyes light enough that it counteracts my brow, but I still feel it could be better. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

And I'd still like to know how I could diminish the ridge where my moustache would be. It bugs the hell out of me. Reminds me of Nicholson's Joker...

Image
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby SarahBear » Fri Jul 11, 2014 12:38 pm

eindecker wrote:Just my luck... it turns out the clearest pic of my face is also the one where I hadn't put a shirt on yet. :oops:
Just focus on my face and let me know what I can do to improve my makeup. I think I've got my eyes light enough that it counteracts my brow, but I still feel it could be better. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

And I'd still like to know how I could diminish the ridge where my moustache would be. It bugs the hell out of me. Reminds me of Nicholson's Joker...

Image

I am not an expert but there are a few things I think you should try.

Like in the tutorial above, I think you should make "slight" adjustments to add a little volume to your lips. I think if you pronounce the two peaks it might help attract attention away from the upper lip to the lips.

You have deep set eyes, so try something that lightens the eye. Lightening it will bring the eye forward. If you highlight above and below the eyebrow it will also help to create a raised brow.

Lastly I think Simones previous suggestions on the eyebrows are spot on. You could go halfway and use a pencil color that matches like a brown and draw in the shape you want. So pardon the terrible quality pictures I took them really fast to illustrate the idea.
Image
This is just my terribly plucked natural brow.
Image
I drew along the bottom from the base of my brow near the nose with a like colored pencil.I drew it all the way to the peak, than continued down the backside of the brow going down toward the outside. Than I slightly filled in the base area to match the color. Like I said earlier, I did this really fast but never the less I am just trying to illustrate my point. The eyebrows help frame the face, so darkening them slightly and shaping them should help to frame your face. It will also draw attention to them.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Simone_Violette » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:49 pm

Here's my mini tutorial on eyebrow shaping! Sorry about the low quality pics, I snapped in a hurry, I hope they work.
Most of eyebrow shaping tutorials are based on nose width and imaginary lines drawn from the nose to various eye points, but I've noticed that sometimes it just doesn't work if the nose is too big, too small, crooked, or irregular in some way. I've come up with my own system that seems to work better, regardless of nose shape.

Image

So, line A is a vertical line starting at the inner corner of the eyes. This is where your brow should start - if it's slightly longer or shorter than this, it can make the eyes seem too tiny, or the nose seems too wide.

Line C starts at the outer corner and this is the ideal place of the highest point of your brow arch. It visually lifts the eye, eliminating any droopiness, and maximizes the space between the eye and the brow, creating a more feminine shape.

Line B is just a line drawn in midpoint between A and C - to show the ideal distance between lines C and D.

D is where the brows should end - far enough to make eyes look bigger and wider, more feminine, but not so far that everything starts looking droopy.

Also, if you flick out your eyeliner, ending it at line D, it maximizes the illusion of wider, bigger, feminine eyes.

I hope this helped!
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:40 pm

... lips continued!

Saturation:

here are the natural lips again:
Image

and then this is what they look like if you simply crank up the color to 11...
Image
Now, that's not adding any color that wasn't in the lips to begin with, this image is created just by increasing the color saturation of the lips alone.

Personal opinion, natural lip color with saturation cranked up, isn't that appealing. But it might work for someone with blonde hair and fair features.

Here on the other hand, are the lips DE-saturated in color:
Image

Both look 'odd', but i honestly prefer the lower saturation myself. Bit of an ice-princess thing going on there.

It's good to understand what saturation is though, and have some idea how it works on your own face. experiment!


Value:

Here are the "high saturation" lips taken down in value (darkness/lightness) to a much darker shade:
Image

Very 50's! which isn't a bad thing. everyone needs to find their own style.

and here are the desaturated lips taken down in value (darkness/lightness) to a much darker shade:
Image

notice that as you decrease the value (make it darker), the low-saturation lips start to look much more natural. As a rule of thumb, you can apply more value shift without "standing out" if you stay with more muted color saturation. Which in turn can help you apply more eye makeup without the value shift there standing out.

The point here... is that there are multiple axis for the colors you use in makeup...

When applying colors to the face, things to consider are:
color saturation (rainbow vs grayscale),
value (lightness vs darkness),
hue (what color exactly?),

and temperature... warmth vs coolness... Generally amber overtones denote warmth, while blueish overtones denote coolness. Also saturation tends to be 'warm', while desaturation tends to be 'cool'. You can shift the saturation level and the hue, to make things more or less saturated, or more or less amber, while still looking warm or cool, as per the palette you're working with. For example, if I wanted to use a lower color-saturated lipstick, the graying effect could cool the color, i could compensate by using a desaturated hue which is slightly more amber in shade, preserving the warmth as I desaturate. You could do this in the other direction too. I'm just giving an example of how to make adjustments to hue or saturation without the associated temperature shift.

Personally, i'm a redhead (well auburn), so my complexion and face-framing hair both favor a more autumn hue'd approach. blue-ish shades look out of place on me, but browns blend in like i was born with them. what color lipstick you choose, should in some way reflect the overall color palette of your appearance. Your clothes, eyeshadow, blush, foundation, hair color, eye color... the whole thing is a final work of art, and you don't need everything to 'match', but just be aware of what the overall color themes are. And be aware that when things stand out from the overall theme, they stand out visually.

For example if I use a very low saturation lipstick and eyeliner and foundation, no blush. and I dye my hair black. and wear white, black, or gray, basically a kind of gothy monochromatic look... then my amber-hazel eyes stand out like laser beams, which can be really striking. Things standing out can be good. Just understand how things stand out, why, etc. and do it with intent rather than accidentally.

If you use a dark lipstick, use darker eye shadow and more aggressive eyeliner... that keeps the value range of your art consistent. Generally people with dark hair and eyes can pull off darker makeup (note: most would say 'heavier makeup' but that's a misnomer!), but even then darker makeup will pull off easier in a black dress than in a white one.


Shine:

One additional parameter applies to lip coloring... shine. You can do a very matte finish look on your lips by adding a transparent powder over your lipstick. Meanwhile you can add a gloss layer to really play up the shine. Some lipstick also has reflective qualities within the color, like a pearl-effect, or a metalic sort of shine.

As a rule of thumb, pearlescent effects, and higher shine, make your lip color look lighter, as they reflect more light (just not with the hue itself). So just be aware that if you are adding shine, you might want to lower the color's value slightly to preserve the overall value of the lips, relative to the value you used on the eyes, etc.

Shine makes the contours of your lips more obvious... making them stand out more.

If you want the upper or lower lip to look more prominent...

to make the lower lip look more prominent, use a value which is slightly lighter than the upper lip. This will visually pull the lower lip forward.

to make the upper lip look more prominent, use a value which is slightly darker than the lower lip, with a bit of lighter hue near the upper edges. This is because the upper lip sits in it's own shadow, so exaggerating that shadow makes it look more prominent, even though darkness usually recedes visually. it kinda creates the logical "implication" of prominence.

what do these two have in common? a slight value shift in the lipstick between upper and lower lips can make both look more prominent.

conversely you could make them look less prominent, if you want to avoid duck-face :P Mine are prominent enough, I don't really use any of this myself.

Also, dark lips:
Image
will display shine or matte choices much more prominently than lighter lips. ie: light lips with a gloss or powder will look "kinda shiny" or "kinda matte", while dark lips with a gloss or powder will look "really shiny" or "really matte". So if you want to play up shine to the max (not saying do that, just if you want to), then go with a darker value lip shade, and probably some metalic or pearlized reflectivity mixed into the color as well.


Translucent coloring:

lip gloss/balms with color!
they are all the rage right now, because they take zero skill and time to apply. while still adding a bit of color/value shift for the lips, and adding lots of shine.

The upside of translucent colors is that they don't need precise edge work. What would be a really sloppy amateur application of lipstick, might work perfectly fine for tinted lip gloss. Which is useful if you're working without a mirror, and/or want to save time.

The main thing with lip gloss, is that it translucent... so whatever colors you use, they should match up with your natural color decently, because your natural color is coming through too.

Also, if you have deep crevasses in your lips (the vertical crack-like valleys), then a translucent color will exaggerate these.

tinted lip glosses tend to give a more 'barely there' appearance, which can help if you're going for a more natural makeup look. And when tinted lip glosses get ruined, it's barely noticeable.

OH, also you can darken your lips some by brushing them, or scraping them, or otherwise just irritating them :P I'm sure some would not advise this, but there have been times where I was like, needing to fix my lips without having a lipstick handy, and just scraping the natural lips darkens them. If used together with a tinted lip gloss, the combined effect can look striking, while still looking very natural.


The lipstick mortal sin:

Image

it happens.
you're eating some iced tea, or drinking some pizza, and your lipstick just comes off. usually around the inner portions. sometimes it'll come off from licking your lips too. it's just something that happens... it's much more noticeable with darker shades of lipstick. but ultimately, it looks baaaad. so if you're wearing a hue or value which is far from your natural lips, then check your lipstick after you do things which might mess it up (after you drink, eat, kiss, etc.).

Choosing hues/values closer to your natural ones is much less maintenance... but you have more power and control over your look with somewhat stronger hues/values. It's a tradeoff.

Also, there are some types of lip coloring which don't wear off so easily. A variety of products deviating from traditional lipstick, which color the lips, and then you apply a glossy balm over the top of it.



I usually prefer to either use a very durable lip tint with a gloss over it, and a matching (not darker) lip liner.

Or for lower maintenance, I use a translucent tinted gloss which has a fairly dark value (and muted saturation) as glosses go. so that you could say it's a 'thick translucence' focusing on value reduction.

both approaches hold up pretty well vs. wear & tear.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Satarecah » Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:02 am

makeup is awesome I have just finally started to wear eyeliner. I almost always pushed away from because my eyes are gorgeous!!! :(
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby SarahBear » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:20 pm

Thank you for the tutorial. ~ :3
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby SarahBear » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:24 pm

Satarecah wrote:makeup is awesome I have just finally started to wear eyeliner. I almost always pushed away from because my eyes are gorgeous!!! :(

They're flawless
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Sun Jul 13, 2014 2:17 pm

SarahBear wrote:I am not an expert but there are a few things I think you should try.

Like in the tutorial above, I think you should make "slight" adjustments to add a little volume to your lips. I think if you pronounce the two peaks it might help attract attention away from the upper lip to the lips.

You have deep set eyes, so try something that lightens the eye. Lightening it will bring the eye forward. If you highlight above and below the eyebrow it will also help to create a raised brow.

Lastly I think Simones previous suggestions on the eyebrows are spot on. You could go halfway and use a pencil color that matches like a brown and draw in the shape you want. So pardon the terrible quality pictures I took them really fast to illustrate the idea.
Image
This is just my terribly plucked natural brow.
Image
I drew along the bottom from the base of my brow near the nose with a like colored pencil.I drew it all the way to the peak, than continued down the backside of the brow going down toward the outside. Than I slightly filled in the base area to match the color. Like I said earlier, I did this really fast but never the less I am just trying to illustrate my point. The eyebrows help frame the face, so darkening them slightly and shaping them should help to frame your face. It will also draw attention to them.


Thanks ffor the visual cues. Like I said, I just recently bought an eyebrow pencil, so I've experimented a bit with it, but haven't really found anything I've really liked yet. My eyebrows pretty much start and end where depicted, but I now see the need to shape them a bit better. Thanks again. I'll try a few things tonight and maybe post some results. Closer up and with a shirt on. Why I didn't crop that pic... :oops:
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby QuinnQuiver » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:40 pm

This post is not exactly tips or a guide on makeup its sort of just me throwing everything out there on my thoughts and knowledge about upper nose and upper inner eyes mtf makeup in the hopes that I get some kind of criticism or input or advice back in return.

Also I just posted some animation images and It looks like some were to large and they get cut off.
If you open the image/link in a new tab you should be able to see the full size animation

Simone_Violette wrote:
Dakini wrote:
Incidentally, by playing with the light & dark around the eyelid, you can redefine your eyelid shape, giving you the appearance of larger eyes, making them more round, more narrow, adjusting their apparent setting closer or father apart, etc.


Yes! Exactly this.
Also, when it comes to the brow ridge, it's important to highlight it but keep it matte. If it's still shiny, the real contours show more, and it's obvious that it's just makeup. The only exclusion to this matte thing should be cheekbones, where it's nice to have a little radiant skin glow, also the tip of the nose :)



Maybe that is my problem - perhaps I have been using a shimmer highlighting eyeshadow rather than a matte highlighting eyeshadow on my brow bossing area.

Thanks for that advice Simone

.... I have been pretty good at learning and applying makeup but when it comes to the upper(and mid-upper) inner eye and the upper nose area that meets the inner eye I have had problems feminizing due to the deep set-iness.


ALSO ...thanks Dakini for this info....

Dakini wrote:So if I were going to copy the below eyeshadow style, I would avoid using the dark shadow in the red-zone:
Image
as that would exaggerate one of my face's masculine features. It may work for the girl in the image, if she has a very feminine face and feels more attractive with a slightly more androgenous eye shading, to contrast her heavy eyeliner, etc.

Also, I would avoid her approach of using a fairly monotone black eyelid... it makes the whole eye recede in the face, giving her the appearance of deep set eyes. This may work for her if she has very shallow set eyes, but for anyone with an XY disposition, you'll want some highlighting on the center of the eyelid, to bring the eye back forward.

And last but not least, I would avoid her use of harsh straight angular lines, as they tend to look more theatrical, and give a masculine edge to things.

Here is how I would "adapt" that eyeshadow look for my own face:
Image
I would argue that it's just as much makeup overall, I've just avoided darkening under the brow bone, and used a lighter shade on the eyelid to bring the eye back forward more, while softening the hard eyeliner edge. The model depicted may look good both ways, but on my face, this last image would look a million times better than the way she did it. I suspect she was going for a dramatic look with deep set eyes and artificially pronounced browbone... an 'andro' look, works for her, not for me.


....like I said I am pretty good with the outer eye and lower inner eye but when it comes to the upper inner eye(and upper nose at the brow bossing point) I am always confused on what I should do cause I have seen different methods.

I am going to try and find out if I have a matte highlighting eye makeup or if it is shimmer. But just in case that isn't the problem I made some pics and gifs in order to attempt to feminize the upper-inner eye/nose area using a photoediting program to look at the methods I have used and compare them(and some other stuff) and attempt to find the best way to feminize the upper inner eye/nose with contouring/highlighting/eye makeup
The one thing I wonder about when you created that picture with the upper inner part of the eye being highlighted is if this going to affect the nose area. or if there is perfect point to stop highlighting near the upper nose area. The reason I am wondering if doing at lot of highlighting will affect the nose is because I have heard from many places that the eyebrows and the ridges( the ridges along the sides of the nose that are usually contoured) frame the face to make it look more feminine and if you highlight all over the upper inner eye area will that affect the face framing? Just a hypothetical question I am wondering about...I guess the best thing to do is try it out with the photoedits and see which looks more feminine....
Here is my original photo(I have a second image of another woman’s face for future references):
Image
Here is a version of the upper inner eye that I have tried before...I connect the highlight from the upper outer eye with the highlight that is usually done right on the inner corner of the eye when applying makeup.
Image
And finally here is what my face should look close to when applying highlighter in all the areas that Dakini showed(the red area)
Image
....wow Dakini!...this actually does look the most feminine out of them all.
I don’t know though if that will do the trick when doing the actual makeup. Dakini, are there some specific parts of the upper inner eye that should be highlighted more?
Also the creating(with makeup) a feminine nose has me concerned if I highlight the whole upper inner eye....My thought is will there be room to create that rounded fan brush contoured feminine nose if everything is highlighted in the upper inner eye area without the makeup looking bad or looking to excessive in that area? I ask this because usually I have to use a lot of makeup in the upper part of the nose.... specifically in these two areas indicated by the word “tricky”:
Image
Those two points are a problem area for me since it is hard to know what to do at those points in order to frame the face in a rounded feminine way since it is so dark in those areas because I always end up using way too much makeup in this area to the point that it starts being extremely noticeable and cartoony.
I am also wondering if those tricky points on me are tricky for all mtf’s or if I have an extremely sharp angled nasal aperture (even for a bio male)which I think that(the sharp nasal aperature) along with the brow brossing is a problem specific just to me or not?....
Image
I created this gif animation to show where it looks like the thinnest point of a female nose usually is(and where it is thinnest on me even with makeup on(until I get better at it that is)....the thinnest points are marked with two red dots on each photo. This animation isn’t really about my problem(except for the fact that I have a hard time creating the female nose with makeup) since I pretty much know what my target goal is for nose contouring(I just can’t do it right yet), but rather for anyone that wants to look at about the approximate thinnest point and shape of the female nose for makeup contouring reference(ignore where it says “tricky” this time...just focus on the two yellow lines):
Image
Thanks everyone for the help and I hopefully I will hear back from somebody with some upper inner eye/ upper nose makeup advice!
Here are some more nose makeup related references you can look at:
Narrower, less flared nose in females:
Image
Base angle and tip of nose male and female:
Image
Columella lower in females:
Image
Nasion closer to the eyes in females:
[img]http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a611/QuinnQuiver/KAYLIN-PC/For%20photobucket/malevsfemalenasion_zpscf86ef29.gif{/img]
Contouring Face chart(not the same for mtf’s though...if anyone would like to note a specific contouring difference(between ciswomen and transwomen) then perhaps I could make another comparison animation)
Image
THANKS!!!
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:55 pm

Well, I played around with the pencil for awhile, and realized I just wasn't going to get a satisfactory shape with my eyebrows as they were. So, I took the plunge and farmed 'em. I'm very satisfied with the results. It opened up my brow to allow more light in so my eyes don't look so deep set. Tell me what you think:

Image
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby dreamin » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:16 am

eindecker wrote:Well, I played around with the pencil for awhile, and realized I just wasn't going to get a satisfactory shape with my eyebrows as they were. So, I took the plunge and farmed 'em. I'm very satisfied with the results. It opened up my brow to allow more light in so my eyes don't look so deep set. Tell me what you think:

Image

wow :!: that really did open 'em up eindecker.. they're so freakin' perfectly done. makes me want to go pluck mine even more :mrgreen:
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:24 am

dreamin wrote:wow :!: that really did open 'em up eindecker.. they're so freakin' perfectly done. makes me want to go pluck mine even more :mrgreen:


Well, on second look tonight, I realized I was fooling myelf into believing that my eyebrows start/stop as indicated in Simone's post. I then looked at SarahBear's post again to see what shape she suggested I try. Now, I had "fooled" myself into thinking that they were alright as is, because truth be told, I didn't wanna pluck 'em! But, after too many failures with the pencil, I figured it wouldn't hurt to look again at their posts. I finally decided that even though I've had women flat out ask me if I've plucked in the past, (well before I came out) I still needed to "cull the herd." I pulled out nearly as much as I have left. It got to the point I seriously had to tell myself to stop before I took it all. I'm not lying when I say you are seeing the pencil as much as you're seeing my natural 'brows! They are really light to begin with, and now that I've pulled half of 'em out, they really can't be seen without a pencil. But props to Simone and SarahBear, the combination of their posts made the perfect recipe for me. :thumb: It truly made all the difference. I had been struggling trying to figure out what was "out of place" with my makeup, and as soon as I got the first one done I realized it had been my 'brows all along!

And I'm not gonna lie, I had a good makeup night. :D





Simone_Violette wrote:And yeah, about the 'Guys don't like makeup' thing... They wouldn't be able to recognize naturally done makeup even if it beat them on the head with a brick and screamed 'Look at me, look at me!' :lol:
It also applies to hair and nails - if it's just an enchancement of natural features and nothing overdone, the untrained male eye won't even notice you're wearing anything or done anything to your hair.......


I've got to comment on this. Until I started doing my own makeup, I never really took notice to women's makeup. Now I see it everywhere. I can tell if it was skillfully applied, done with subtley, or applied with a 3" deck brush. And I can't believe how many cis-women are absolutely clueless! But conversely, I've got to say that I'm really diggin' the the trend towards "natural" makeup that I see a lot of the younger women wearing. I can tell it's there now, but until that first blot of foundation went onto my own face, I would have never known. Now, I'm not saying that I know what I'm doing, and that I don't look like a clown, but my point is, I just never noticed before that fateful night that I got my makeup "did." Of course, I also absolutely FAILED at being a "guy" and didn't notice much of anything anyway, so...

Actually, if we go by Simone's logic, not noticing makeup is right on par for a "normal" guy!
I'm "cured" everyone!
See ya later, Peace I'm out!
:lol:



Also, I'm having a problem with my Mascara. After awhile (maybe 2-3 hours) I'm guessing it starts to dry and get brittle, and little flakes fall off and find their way into my eye. It looks like pepper and burns like it. Once it starts doing that I have to wash it off. I'm guessing that if all mascara did this, that I would have know by now. (I can't remember anyone re-applying their mascara halfway through an event) The one I'm using is Rimmel Lash Accelerator, if that makes a difference. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong in applying it, or if it's just not a good mascara. I also use a curler if that makes a difference.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Simone_Violette » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:04 pm

Eindecker, I'm amazed what difference eyebrows have made for you! You look much more feminine, your eyebrows bring a nice round shape to your whole face. Well done!

Also, mascaras shouldn't be doing that. Check the expiration date. Or it's just bad quality, dunno. I use Maybelline and I'm quite pleased. Lasts more than a day :lol:
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Mon Jul 21, 2014 2:19 am

Simone_Violette wrote:Eindecker, I'm amazed what difference eyebrows have made for you! You look much more feminine, your eyebrows bring a nice round shape to your whole face. Well done!

Also, mascaras shouldn't be doing that. Check the expiration date. Or it's just bad quality, dunno. I use Maybelline and I'm quite pleased. Lasts more than a day :lol:



Thanks! I am quite please with the outcome as well, it really brought my eyes out, which is what I've been trying for since I started. Thanks again for the tutorials girls. This thread should be stickied, imo.
And I tried another mascara tonight, and I did not encounter that problem. Could be that it was older, because I do believe it's not exactly a "cheap" brand. It was given to me by a friend, she had it sitting around ( wasn't used) so it could have been affected by time, temperature extremes, and who knows what else.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:03 am

Eyebrows make a HUGE difference.

like the old Lou Reed song lyric:
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,


Anyway, I find that mornings i roll out of bed, and go look in the mirror at my morning-zombie-self, and I don't like what I see? yeah, those days are either days when I've fallen behind on plucking, or days I've fallen behind on dying my roots... or both (scary).

However much you think you need to pluck, pluck half again more! and then you're there :)

Thick eyebrows works for Brooke Shields... but she's just playing with trying to have a single flaw to give herself a more distinctive look and stand out from the other supermodels. Most of us aren't in that kind of luxurious situation.



PS, i have been following a different set of proportion guidelines than Simone, but the end result is that I pluck my eyebrows with the exact same sense of geometry as she does :) Sort of like there's more than one way to measure a cat, but in the end we're coming up with the same numbers :) It seems she and I have the same pointed arch, and it just works most naturally with our faces (compared to a more rounded arch).

faces vary though! some people will need a different approach :) I think your eyebrows turned out great eindecker, really makes a difference :)
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby eindecker » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:13 pm

Dakini wrote:Eyebrows make a HUGE difference.

like the old Lou Reed song lyric:
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She said, hey babe, take a walk on the wild side,


Anyway, I find that mornings i roll out of bed, and go look in the mirror at my morning-zombie-self, and I don't like what I see? yeah, those days are either days when I've fallen behind on plucking, or days I've fallen behind on dying my roots... or both (scary).

However much you think you need to pluck, pluck half again more! and then you're there :)

Thick eyebrows works for Brooke Shields... but she's just playing with trying to have a single flaw to give herself a more distinctive look and stand out from the other supermodels. Most of us aren't in that kind of luxurious situation.



PS, i have been following a different set of proportion guidelines than Simone, but the end result is that I pluck my eyebrows with the exact same sense of geometry as she does :) Sort of like there's more than one way to measure a cat, but in the end we're coming up with the same numbers :) It seems she and I have the same pointed arch, and it just works most naturally with our faces (compared to a more rounded arch).

faces vary though! some people will need a different approach :) I think your eyebrows turned out great eindecker, really makes a difference :)



Thanks Dakini!
I'm really happy with the results. Even now in "guy mode" I can see how much just doing my eyebrows has softened my face. I still can't believe how much of a difference it's made, and now when I catch a glimpse of my reflection I see her, regardless of having no makeup. You probably can't guess from the pictures I've posted, but normally I'm very quiet, reserved, and shy. Not when I'm able to be myself. You gals have helped me nourish a level of confidence I've never had. Posting closeup pics of myself on a public forum!.... Who woulda thunk!? But seriously, that has made a HUGE difference in how I feel about myself, and I can't thank you all enough...
Just the simple act of making this thread, solely for the benefit of others, shows me just how supportive and generous this community is. You gals are the greatest!
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby Dakini » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:52 am

eindecker wrote: Even now in "guy mode" I can see how much just doing my eyebrows has softened my face. I still can't believe how much of a difference it's made, and now when I catch a glimpse of my reflection I see her, regardless of having no makeup.

When you see your gender-correct self in the mirror without "getting ready" in any way... it's like the whole transition thing just starts to all fall into place at that point :) start to get comfortable in your own skin for once :)

eindecker wrote:You probably can't guess from the pictures I've posted, but normally I'm very quiet, reserved, and shy. Not when I'm able to be myself. You gals have helped me nourish a level of confidence I've never had. Posting closeup pics of myself on a public forum!.... Who woulda thunk!? But seriously, that has made a HUGE difference in how I feel about myself, and I can't thank you all enough...

you know, i was the most shy, meek, timid thing as a boy :P I mean, maybe I wasn't *that* bad, i can think of other people who were more of a pushover, but I was pretty 'soft' as a guy. And then when i finally felt comfortable in my own skin, I actually got a lot more confident and assertive and self assured. It was a little counter intuitive, i knew I'd have more fun being a girl, I didn't realize I would turn out having a much stronger personal presence. I think, as a boy, deep down I just couldn't fathom anyone taking me seriously. I felt like I was super-glued inside a monkey suit. I didn't like what I saw in the mirror, and didn't see why anyone else should either. Like wearing a clown outfit at a formal, i found it hard to really bridge the awkwardness of my position. And then as a girl... well, I could actually just say a thought that pops into my head, without carefully filtering everything to make sure it's gender appropriate... I could just let my hair down and "be"...without kinda constantly being in 'crisis management mode', with a crisis that never ended. well until i could 'not' be a boy. Sometimes I wonder if I was ever actually shy, or just ashamed & awkward about my physical gender.
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby dreamin » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:07 pm

Dakini wrote:I felt like I was super-glued inside a monkey suit

this resonates with me on a couple of levels: the obvious which is that my genetic 'outer' wasn't matching with my envisionings, as well as how we're all tethered to these furry meat puppets via said 'glue'
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby grrl_aex » Sat Jul 26, 2014 2:18 pm

Dakini wrote:I could just let my hair down and "be"...without kinda constantly being in 'crisis management mode', with a crisis that never ended. well until i could 'not' be a boy. Sometimes I wonder if I was ever actually shy, or just ashamed & awkward about my physical gender.


Or "C_ _ _is" management mode. ;)

I'd bet on ashamed & awkward--like an imposter whose heart isn't really into it. (I totally relate.) I never had the sense that i was doing the impersonation well enuf, plus i resented the fact that i *had* to-- and that just frustrated me and that made me pretty much angry all the time which = asshole dude. (Which prolly goes to why i lost all my guy friends after transing--cause who is friends with an asshole? A: Other assholes. lol!!) My sit kinda extra sucked cause all along i had a side life as a trans-whatev (queen, TV, alphabet, take a pick) so i *knew* what my prob was (which put the frus on a 'roids lvl)-- but, based on the standards for transing i grew up knowing, i just didn't *qualify*... until things opened up in the early 90's-(like, late nite tv commercial:-Attention AMAZONS! Yes, YOU now qualify for TRANSITION!!! First 100 callers get...heheh yeh...) Soon as i found that out--i went from fat asshole suicidal psycho dude to sweet, hot & happy fulltime transie callgirl living aboard her 37'Islander in like 6 mos flat, including everything. :whew:snoopydance:

oh *ok*, soooo offtopic. :oops: I know this just fries some peeps grits when this happens in a thread but i think it's kinda cool & morphy n chit! But--ON TOPIC!!---Awesome makeup thread, Dakini!

Some tips i've used: use *white* blendable crayon (liner pencil) to highlight the plumpest parts of your lips (plus gloss really "plumps em up!) and just below brow ridge to bring upper eye sockets "out" a bit.. Dark powder under jawline to accentuate it and deaccentuate neck if it tends to flow into the jawline (like mine does a little, feel me?)--and same for sides of nose longitudinally, makes the nose appear narrower, straighter, esp with highlight narrowly down the front, just below bridge-to-tip with *more* highlight on bridge itself to bring it out. And highlight cheekbones themselves but with darker shade *under*, before blush *on* the cheekbones, verra light. Lips again, if narrower (like mine) u can get away with lining *just* outside natural lip line (don't overdo it tho, loox weird fast) and then filling in as you described in whatever way works best. I use Prestige brand liner for my whole lips (lazy), but lasts _all_ day (unless u munch dn on fried chicken etc, but nothing stands up to that!) *Plus*--u can go WAAAAAY overboard (and should!) for purpose-shot photography (studio). Photo makeup is something u'd never go outside wearing! LOL! Two dimensional makeup is a whole diff deal really...and comes off much more effective as well. (Well, once-upon-a-time anyway--these days they could prolly shoot models w/o any makeup at all??-- and just put it all on in photoshop!! lol)
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Re: Makeup, why and how.

Postby dreamin » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:48 pm

grrl_aex wrote:these days they could prolly shoot models w/o any makeup at all??-- and just put it all on in photoshop!! lol)

since my official residence is inside the Interbewbs, I'll have to use this^^ for my first photo shoot for the board lewlewlewl

<totes j/k would not 'shop my shoot for this board, but rest assured I will be abusing makeup and look like a mother fucking clown for your 3-ring circus of pretteh>
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