This is my hormone regimen - need advice

[few_are_chosen]

I am 19 years old (MTF TS) and have been on HRT since I was 16 years old. I have increased my dosage over the years and lately I have been self medicating. Below is my regimen that Im currently at and I would like some feedback.

Premarin 2.5mg daily
Estradiol 4mg daily
Spironolactone 400mg daily
Delestrogen 40mg shot every 2 weeks
Depo-Provera 150mg shot every 30 days
I also take 2mg ethinyl estradiol daily.....

Comments are appreciated

[Erica]

I am 19 years old (MTF TS) and have been on HRT since I was 16 years old. I have increased my dosage over the years and lately I have been self medicating. Below is my regimen that Im currently at and I would like some feedback.

Premarin 2.5mg daily
Estradiol 4mg daily
Spironolactone 400mg daily
Delestrogen 40mg shot every 2 weeks
Depo-Provera 150mg shot every 30 days
I also take 2mg ethinyl estradiol daily.....

Comments are appreciated

[rant=on]
First, we are not doctors.

Second, OMG that's insane, you're like a walking pharmacy. You're liver must be cursing your female name.

I can't imagine anyone needing anywhere near that much E in their system at once. You need to get back under a Dr's care immediately and get a full blood workup, and this is coming from someone who has been self prescribing for 3 months. Where in the world did you harvest this regimen from? It's hard to believe anyone would advocate it.

[/rant]

[few_are_chosen]

Well....

I do see a nurse practitioner who prescribes the Premarin 2.50mg, Estradiol 6mg, and Spironolactone 300mg. By me being on low income and welfare I get all my prescriptions for free.

But what I do is when I go to the clinic and see my nurse practitioner I steal a couple of RX pads. I work as a CNA (nurses assistant) and a health unit coordinator, and know how to write prescriptions. My ex husband has Medicaid prescription insurance, so I fill out prescriptions for as many pills I can get (usually 90 tablets of Premarin, Estradiol, and Spironolactone each) and put like 4 refills on each. And every month I go back and get a refill for free using his name and his insurance. Hormones are common medications and any kind of doctor can prescribe them - thats why they are easy to obtain, and so the pharmacy at Walgreens never questions it.

Also, the clinic I work for has a lot of medicines in stock and on hand, which is where I get the Delestrogen, the Depo Provera, and the birth control pills.

So basically I am blessed - I am getting all this for free and have been for the last 3 years

[DYSSONANCE]

Ok, just want to point out that based on your description there, you are taking roughly 15mg of estrogen per day (dangerous dosage level -- very), 400MG of spiro (dangerous dosage level), and a reasonable amount of a fairly dangerous form of progestin.

In all honesty, I think the only reason you are alive is you are 19.

No, that is not a joke

You need to go and see a doctor. Now. Period.

Spiro -- if you were older and had very high levels of T, I'd say fine.

Estrogen -- you need to pull that way way back, and the combined effects of all of that isn't going to do you any *more* good, and willing the end, do you more harm. The shot and the 2 mg a day are all you need.

Also, in your case, take an 81mg aspirin each day. Your blood is going to be thin as all get out, but you are at an incredibly high risk for heart attack right now.

go to a doctor. Now.

[DYSSONANCE]

You also just gave all trans people a bad name and committed a felony that will ensure you not only fail to get those hormones but you will be anything but recognized.

I see mythical creature droppings.

[Erica]

So basically I am blessed - I am getting all this for free and have been for the last 3 years

I think your only blessing is that you haven't been caught at it and thrown in prison for the two felony offenses you are committing. You need to grow up and start using the gray matter upstairs for more than just soaking up Estrogen, or you're going to end up dead or incarcerated. I've read that they aren't too kind to transfolk in prison.

Sorry but you need some tough love.

[regalgoddess]

This whole story sounds a little fishy to me....

[Jennifer2008]

i've never heard of someone taking so many different types of hormones concurrently.. let alone such high dosages..

[nexyjo]

...I would like some feedback.

1) i'm amazed you're still alive.
2) i'm amazed you're not in prison.
3) i agree with regal.

[Andina]

Agree, that is stupid. More is not Better and can be dangerous. Are you aware of the blood clot risks you are taking that can lead to stroke or loss of a limb?

[ellie]

I can think of quicker ways of torturing myself leading to a grim painful future or even death!!

Really fac, go see a doc about your tg issues, If you are serious about what you wrote, you need education and guidance counceling.
Im one to talk lol, im too scaredycat to go see my doc
im registering with a new doc next week, i hope she can help me with my issues.

[aliciadarling]

Hi:

I agree with the others here. You are taking way more
than you need and that could be potentially dangerous or
even lethal. Seriously.

You only need to take enough anti androgens to reduce your
testosterone level to normal female levels. You only need to take
enough HRT to result in developement of normal female body
developement or feminization. Too much HRT can seriously affect
your liver and if you were older cause fatal blood clots.

Contrary to what some think, more is not always better.
Hormones take a while to work, so if you take normal
recommended dosages they will do the trick over several years
without being a health hazard. Just as an example too much of
some vitamins can actually be dangeous.

[NYCBound]

Wow I am laying here in the hospital and I just asked the nurse what she thought about what you were doing to yourself. I didnt give her all the details just the number and amount of pills you have been taking. You are way way over anything close to what she says you should be taking. There are a number of people here who have been telling you the same thing. Listen to them they know what they are talking about. These ladies and gentlemen here do know what they are talking about. You are basically committing suicide it is just a matter of time before it all crashes.
Andrina, Nexy, and Dyssonance, all know what they are talking about, they have probably helped more people here on the boards than you can imagine. Listen to them stop what you are doing and go see a doctor. The life you save will be your own.

[Erica]

An additional thought on this subject. You may not be aware that your wonderful body can and does convert estrogen to testosterone and vice versa. It's smart enough to know when you have massive excess of one, and it may very well have been using some of the excess E you've been pumping into yourself to further masculinize you. This seems like an untimate irony, and lends more fuel to the statement that "more is not better".

You need to see a Dr and be honest and tell him/her what you have been doing (omitting the felonies of course)

[kristibot]

Everyone else here is right, nobody should be mega-dosing estrogen to that extent. If you are in the medical field you should know better. I'd also have hoped someone in medicine would have better ethics than to forge prescriptions.

Premarin 2.50mg, Estradiol 6mg, and Spironolactone 300mg

That regimen which was legitimately prescribed by your nurse practitioner is a sensible one, with the possible exception of Premarin (which contains horse estrogens your body can't metabolize).

There IS some anecdotal evidence (apparently no definitive medical studies have been done) that taking more than one kind of estrogen does speed, or improve the results of, feminization. Estradiol is readily metabolized by the body; Ethinyl estradiol, though, has a relatively long half-life (36+hours) which allows it to recirculate in the body. Ethinyl estradiol, in particular, is associated with a significantly increased risk of thrombosis. Also, taking 2 mg/day of it is a VERY excessive dose. Even .5mg/day was considered excessive, which is why pills in that dosage are no longer even manufactured.

You said you're taking 400mg/day of Spironolactone. Well, technically that is the "safe maximum dosage" according to the Physicians' Desk Reference - and at your age androgen production would be near its peak. HOWEVER, you're also taking massive doses of estrogens, which exert their own anti-androgenic effect, so I can't fathom that you'd actually require the maximum dose of spironolactone. If you haven't had any lab work done (and you didn't mention it) you really don't know what your androgen levels are, so your self-medicating is just a shot in the dark.

Lastly, Depo-Provera (medroxyprogesterone acetate). I've never been convinced of the usefulness of Provera in TS HRT regimens. Consider that all those recent negative news stories about HRT implicated only combinations of synthetic progestins and estrogens (like Premarin + Provera), where the combination of them in particular increased the risk of blood clots and breast cancer. I'm also aware of one study that has shown Provera has ZERO effect on inhibiting the formation of DHT, while bio-identical Micronized Progesterone (Prometrium/Utrogestan) were 97% efficient. The jury is also still out on whether Provera stimulates glandular breast tissue growth and increases bone density like natural progesterone do.

So, long story short, I'd recommend you dump the Premarin, Depo-Provera, and ethinyl estradiol; take the dosages of Estradiol and Spironolactone you were legitimately prescribed, add 200-400mg/day of Prometrium 10-15 days a month - and if you're dead set on the idea of taking more than one estrogen try to get a legit prescription for the Delestrogen [estradiol valerate] injections (the dose you're taking is already the maximum recommended, so you might also consider backing that off a bit to 20 or 30mg). And if you don't have any allergies to aspirin take 81mg/day as was already suggested - you gotta thin that blood out when you're taking so many estrogens!

Since you started taking hormones at 16 years old you should actually see very good feminization even on LOW doses of female hormones - your mega-dosing is definitely doing your body more harm than good. I think everyone here understands your desire to see major results quickly, but this is one thing you should not rush - and mega-dosing multiple estrogens is not the way to do it. Even if you're lucky and don't die of a blood clot or develop cancer, mega-dosing multiple estrogens is actually more apt to cause abnormal development (like hypoplastic, or "tubular," breasts). Natal females take 5-7 years to develop, and you started your HRT around the same age many natal girls are developing. Give yourself - and your body - the same amount of time to adjust and develop as any other girl gets.

[lacerta91]

who wants to bet she isn't coming back?

[ravyn]

With all that E, does that mean she has a Double ZZ cup size bra lmao....she probably wont come back and holy crap come to think of it maybe shes in the hospital cause Dysonance scared her into that heart attack.....I hope not but everything Dysonance stated she deserved to read and hear. One can only hope that if she does not return that at least she heeds the advice she read....

Now that being said maybe she was here fishing for hormones or trying to sell them here on the board...Let me explain, She may have been hoping that someone was going to pm her and say yes I have access to lots of hormones myself and now she has an actual connection right here on the board....but I truly think she was trying to get buyers in hopes that someone here would be willing to pm her and express interest in buying hormones from her....

Another thing she has been doing hormones since age 16 , she is age 19, she has been a cna for 3 years and also married and divorce in that time...I mean is this at all possible by the time someone is 19 years old...lets think about this she has not had the surgery , her claims was that she was a MtoF in transition...so I highly doubt she has been married...As far as I am concerned she is a internet sales person trying to attract people with her stockpile and access to hormones....Think really hard, doesnt it make more sence now....

Your right the story is fishy because I believe it to be nothing but a lie made to attract those who cant afford the necessary therapy that leads to an endocrinologist which in turn leads to legal HRT....

Ravyn has spoken her peace, now does anyone agree

[kristibot]

Another thing she has been doing hormones since age 16 , she is age 19, she has been a cna for 3 years and also married and divorce in that time...I mean is this at all possible by the time someone is 19 years old...lets think about this she has not had the surgery , her claims was that she was a MtoF in transition...so I highly doubt she has been married...As far as I am concerned she is a internet sales person trying to attract people with her stockpile and access to hormones....Think really hard, doesnt it make more sence now....

Your right the story is fishy because I believe it to be nothing but a lie made to attract those who cant afford the necessary therapy that leads to an endocrinologist which in turn leads to legal HRT....Ravyn has spoken her peace, now does anyone agree

Well, playing Devil's Advocate here. . .

She seems to have only made five posts so I'm not sure where some of your information came from (PM?) and I only saw mention of one ex-husband (and that might just be how she thinks about him, doesn't mean they were legally married). Also, if you read the post closely she said she's been getting hormones free for 3 years because she's on welfare - not because she's been a CNA for 3 years. Being low-income and so young I'm frankly not surprised she isn't post-op. I'd be more surprised if she was. Actually, where does she ever say her surgery status? I guess, given the mega-doses, I just assumed she must be pre-op.

Anyway, regardless of the motivations or truthfulness of the OP, the advice that followed is valid.

[regalgoddess]

An additional thought on this subject. You may not be aware that your wonderful body can and does convert estrogen to testosterone and vice versa. It's smart enough to know when you have massive excess of one, and it may very well have been using some of the excess E you've been pumping into yourself to further masculinize you. This seems like an untimate irony, and lends more fuel to the statement that "more is not better".

You need to see a Dr and be honest and tell him/her what you have been doing (omitting the felonies of course)

No, Not actually estradiol or any estrogen for that matter cannot be converted into testosterone, just natural progesterone and other weaker androgens

[kristibot]

No, Not actually estradiol or any estrogen for that matter cannot be converted into testosterone, just natural progesterone and other weaker androgens

You're correct that estrogens cannot be converted to testosterone, but I'm pretty sure they also aren't converted into progesterone nor weaker androgens either.

I believe estradiol (like DHT) is considered an "end product" of the hormone chain and don't undergo any major conversions (by which I mean estradiol converts to estrone and estriol or as it is broken down into metabolites like hydroxyestradiol or glucuronide).

A Basic flowchart of hormone conversions

A more detailed one also showing breakdown.

[regalgoddess]

I know that as well Kristi, I was saying that only progesterone and other weaker androgens can be coverted into testosterone.

[lisagurl]

Anyway, regardless of the motivations or truthfulness of the OP, the advice that followed is valid.

This thread has had some good advice.

I am always skeptical of people with Yahoo email addresses that are new and have no history. It seems that the owner has something to hide.

After a few years on several boards I have found that every nut fits this profile.

[April221]

I am 19 years old (MTF TS) and have been on HRT since I was 16 years old. I have increased my dosage over the years and lately I have been self medicating. Below is my regimen that Im currently at and I would like some feedback.

Premarin 2.5mg daily
Estradiol 4mg daily
Spironolactone 400mg daily
Delestrogen 40mg shot every 2 weeks
Depo-Provera 150mg shot every 30 days
I also take 2mg ethinyl estradiol daily.....

Comments are appreciated

Since you invited comments...what you should be aiming for is the lowest effective dose. In other words, you're trying to find the lowest dosage of the fewest drugs that produce the best results. HRT is a slow process. Natal women can take more than 5 years for maximum breast growth to be attained. Do you honestly expect to achieve greater breast development in less time? Ethinyl estradiol is used in birth control pills, and was used in HRT many years ago. Today, it's avoided, because EV is more effective with fewer side effects.

You're listing various regimens, both old and new, and adding them all together. It's more than dangerous, it's reckless and cause for a doctor to refuse to help you. A doctor has the right to refuse treatment to anyone who is believed to be un trustworthy in taking HRT strictly as prescribed. If a doctor feels that you will add to whatever he, or she, prescribes, you can rightfully be denied treatment.

You're risking blood clots as well as permanent damage to your liver that could also prevent your being able to qualify for proper medically supervised care.

Is this what you really wish to do?

[Cathy344]

My question... why are you taking four different forms of estrogen? The Depo for your progesterone, fine. The Spiro for your anti-androgen needs, way high, but okay, but then four separate sources of estrogen? Girl! Pick your pony and ride him for a while.

For the record, Delestrogen = estradiol valerate, so you have three forms that explicitly go under the moniker estradiol. Do away with the ethinyl estradiol and the plain estradiol and stick with the intramuscular injection every 2 weeks. I'm biased, as that's what I take. Also, ditch the Premarin for no other reason than the IM estradiol is entirely sufficient, but also because it's more bio-compatible than the Premarin and more humane in its production.

Also, demand a free testosterone blood test and to see the results to determine if your T levels are indeed in the female-normative level on that 400 mg of spiro. As has been said, that's dangerously high. If your T level is insanely low, demand to be taken down to 300 mg for 3 months and then another test. If it's still low, go to 200 and the same. Eventually, your T will rise to a higher than female-normative level, and you can adjust appropriately.

I'm a big fan of the wisdom of not taking ANY more medication than you absolutely have to to achieve the stated goals. HRT does not require that medicine cabinet of pills and injections. Minimize, minimize, minimize. Here's mine:

32 mg, estradiol valerate, IM inj., biweekly
100 mg, spironolactone, pill, daily
100 mg, prometrium, gellcap, 10 days out of every 28 starting 2 days after an injection

And I've stopped the prometrium after two years with no real results. That's it.

[Sandkat]

I am 19 years old (MTF TS) and have been on HRT since I was 16 years old. I have increased my dosage over the years and lately I have been self medicating. Below is my regimen that Im currently at and I would like some feedback.

Premarin 2.5mg daily
Estradiol 4mg daily
Spironolactone 400mg daily
Delestrogen 40mg shot every 2 weeks
Depo-Provera 150mg shot every 30 days
I also take 2mg ethinyl estradiol daily.....

Comments are appreciated

Well it's already been sad ad infinitum but I felt I would add my $0.02 to your dosage:



Now if you're still alive and reading this, you better get to a doctor ASAP!

[Sheral]

Hi few_are_chosen PLEASE go to a doctor and have a complete set of blood tests your life at risk. You still can have a happy life if you live longer than a couple more days. Blow the cost get tested NOW PLEASE

[Kade]

I am 19 years old (MTF TS) and have been on HRT since I was 16 years old. I have increased my dosage over the years and lately I have been self medicating. Below is my regimen that Im currently at and I would like some feedback.

Premarin 2.5mg daily
Estradiol 4mg daily
Spironolactone 400mg daily
Delestrogen 40mg shot every 2 weeks
Depo-Provera 150mg shot every 30 days
I also take 2mg ethinyl estradiol daily.....

Comments are appreciated

Well it's already been sad ad infinitum but I felt I would add my $0.02 to your dosage:



Now if you're still alive and reading this, you better get to a doctor ASAP!

BEST. IMAGE. EVER!

And just to add to it...


YOUR TURTLE FAILS! And get to a fucking doctor, lol.

[Spooky]

my opinion is that this is complete overkill. i've tried ( successfully and unsuccesfully ) to self medicate before and so i did as much research i could on this but even if i didn't anyone would know that premarin + estradiol + depo provera = the same effect with different names. why did you think you need more than one form of the same type of estrogen? also, more than 4 mg a day won't do anything extra effects wise other than fuck up your liver. the spiro actually seems like to be at an okay level though some may disagree with me. i actually don't even feel normal unless i'm on 300 mg of it. i used to take 400 without any side effects but i was worried it might have been too much. if i were you i'd just scratch off the entire list aside from estradiol and spiro and replace all the redundent meds with progesterone ( about 2 to 4 mg ) and finasteride which will actually compliment your hormone regimen instead of just flooding you with one form of estrogen. i don't condone what you're doing but i know it's hard and i can't make you stop so i felt the need to at least help you make a smarter choice as to what you put into your body. i hope everything goes well for you and if you keep doing this for the love of god don't get caught. you'll get sent to prison. men's prison

[regalgoddess]

Premarin Estradiol and Provera are not even close to the same thing, Provera is not even estrogen and premarin and estradiol are two different things entirely one is horse estrogen and one is bio identical human estradiol.
You've claimed to do so much damn research, yet you can't even tell the three apart.....

why did you think you need more than one form of the same type of estrogen? also, more than 4 mg a day won't do anything extra effects wise other than fuck up your liver.

1 Why do you have to use such grotuesque language, and 2 don't dispense medical advice.

and replace all the redundent meds with progesterone ( about 2 to 4 mg )

What progesterone are you thinking about, 100 mg is the standard dose 4 mg probably won't even show up in urine.

[NYCBound]

I think it is a good idea not to make suggestions as to dosage as only with tests and a medical licence can anyone really know what levels would be required. That being said there are some instances where programs developed by professionals can perhaps be used until proper testing can be done to determin levels. The lowest working level is usually what is sought. Each individual is ultimately responsible for their own health. My best advice talk to a doctor who has a background in dealing with Transgender patients. I myself would never suggest someone take premairn, this is due to the inhumane treatment of the animals. I would rather see it discontinued as there are other optons avalible.

[Tweek]

yea, um, thats waaay too much estrogen in your system dude.

and you are a dumbass for taking that much, and you should be locked up, was pretty stupid to blab your crimes on a board like this

[ellie]

I have to say that at first, i wasn't sure wether fewarechosen's first post was a joke, or for real. I went with it being for real, and replied accordingly.

It's now been 2 months since she has posted, and i have mixed feelings of hope (that she has seen a doctor and is taking a more responsible approach to her transition), and concern (hoping she hasn't come to any harm)

I would very much like to hear some good news from her

[Nicky]

Hi Lilly,

If you are considering increasing spiro s dose, forget spiro it really is crap. At your T level you'd need 500-600mg a month. Casodex may work well in turning that T into E. You could also nuke it all fast with andocur. By the time you ran out of one box, your T level would be gone and the E can do the rest.

Hope this helps,
Nicky

[Sam]

1st: this thread is old
2nd: I seem to recall you being pretty fuzzy on what meds there are and their dosages (self medicating and guessing at the dosages). Yes, I remember your intro thread

So, forgive me for being blunt but... since when are you an expert on these things and how on earth do you dare give out medical advice (on what meds to take and what dosages) without knowing the persons bloodwork?!? And, well, not being a medical doctor doesn't help you. Because you "read on the internet"?

Sorry... I've seen you playing this card one too many times. And I don't like it. Your 'advice' here is waaay too dangerous to follow. And that was the final drop. Please, stop doing that. You self medicate.... which is fine by me. You adjust your dosages any way you want... fine by me too. But stop advising people what, and how much, to take on pure guesswork. It's DANGEROUS. HORMONES ARE NOT CANDY!

Seriously.

[Gracie]

I won't say much on this but some know of my varied hrt...btw purple premarin 2.5 tasted like candy, the sweet candy-coated pills made my tounge purple too I used to suck on them likee candy. I did not have any trouble with prescriptions and I'm greatful to my doctors and the medicaid system for allowing me to have them, at higher levels than the op even, tests often indicate a need to increase, not decrease hrt, some patients need more or they won't change. No one said my high testo level 1400 + out of range was dangerous _ why just because it was "nturally" that way? BS that was horrible to live thru, so why isit ok to be saturated with testo and in misery from macrocephaly, severe cystic acne all over, and heArt issue, an d other conditions of it? All I'm saying is some rare cases may need expertise of a special doctor who has experience beyond the minimum "conservative" fortunaTely estrogen saved my health and my life. I love E. And my very first hrt doctor. He was my savior.

[Nicky]

1st: this thread is old
2nd: I seem to recall you being pretty fuzzy on what meds there are and their dosages (self medicating and guessing at the dosages). Yes, I remember your intro thread

So, forgive me for being blunt but... since when are you an expert on these things and how on earth do you dare give out medical advice (on what meds to take and what dosages) without knowing the persons bloodwork?!? And, well, not being a medical doctor doesn't help you. Because you "read on the internet"?

Sorry... I've seen you playing this card one too many times. And I don't like it. Your 'advice' here is waaay too dangerous to follow. And that was the final drop. Please, stop doing that. You self medicate.... which is fine by me. You adjust your dosages any way you want... fine by me too. But stop advising people what, and how much, to take on pure guesswork. It's DANGEROUS. HORMONES ARE NOT CANDY!

Seriously.

Sam, your comments are out-of-line. I may not be able to give out medical advice to any one here but you can give medical advice to me. If you cannot appreciate or understand my message then atleast show some maturity and respect for yourself by refraining from making childishly insulting comments.
If you bothered to atleast read what I took the time to post you would see that my 'advice' here may be too dangerous to follow as you say but Im trying on getting more involved here..... and how things seem to bounce back to you good or bad but i dont see how im causing trouble here im just asking questions or giving replies, after having searched the entire web or even being an active member of several forums(not only here).

I'm not here to prove to anyone I am a medical doctor or argue with anyone about it. Unlike a lot of MTFs ts I took the very big decision(when I was a teenager) to self-medicate when I realized I wanted to become a girl and therefore I have enjoyed a level of success not possible for some ts who waited longer then I.

Fact is, I searched the entire web or became an active member of several forums. Fact is, I was willing to selfmedicate what some may consider to be drastic decision. The bottom line is, and the reason I post my updates, is to show even if you can't afford doctor visits, you always have choices. My choice was to self-medicate and I did what I had to do.


That is why I went the route I did..

Everyone's personal battle wid life starts somewhere... Dont knock someone who started self medicating just because, for whatever reasons, you may not have.

[Sam]

You were suggesting an extremely dangerous dose. While... a month ago you yourself were asking what drugs to take. Sorry but that raises a couple eyebrows.

And, oh look, I did say I don't care if you self medicate. What I do object tho, is you acting as some sort of expert. Where you saw any mention of some T levels:

At your T level you'd need 500-600mg a month.

is beyond me (but yes, maybe I missed something).

I'm out of line when I say that people should be careful about taking on your hormonal advice? True, I would be if you had a medical degree and access to peoples bloodwork results. You have neither.

[Nicky]

You were suggesting an extremely dangerous dose. While... a month ago you yourself were asking what drugs to take. Sorry but that raises a couple eyebrows.

And, oh look, I did say I don't care if you self medicate. What I do object tho, is you acting as some sort of expert. Where you saw any mention of some T levels:

At your T level you'd need 500-600mg a month.

is beyond me (but yes, maybe I missed something).

I'm out of line when I say that people should be careful about taking on your hormonal advice? True, I would be if you had a medical degree and access to peoples bloodwork results. You have neither.

Oh Sammmmm,

I don't understand. Why so much anger?
I said Im not here to prove to anyone I am a medical doctor or argue with anyone about it and is a real concern with me i you want I can just view yours posts but I have question then I have no one to ask I sure aint gonna ask anyone in person I think your bieng too judgmental on me.

and its not cool to throw me into your stereo typical thought of what a poor self medicate ts is all about and that quote up there sounds a little racial to me but I aint gonna judge that... I can see the way your mind went when you saw what my previous avatar was(photo of me - how jealous are you?, Needless to say, I got comments by people lik: you look like a genetic girl, its incredible how much youve progressed, you are stunning, etc).
Note: I was previously taking diane35 and casodex for 27 months and some helpful girls from another forum advised me to switch to estrogen injections and a low dose of cyproterone, just because ethinylestradiol is one of the older and most dangerous kinds of estrogens when it comes to blood clotting - without your help obviously. And yes I've joined this forum to give advice and hope to those most in need but also to get advice from all here. We are all here to help each other, how can I get advice from you, when you judge me so harshly? Just tell me....

I am pretty sure you know what if you wanna disrespect me I have no objection to disrespecting you. Lets see what medical degree you have... if you never would have called me out I would not call you out - How can you call yourself some sort of expert, when you act like this...?

[zoetrope]

Needless to say, I got comments by people lik: you look like a genetic girl, its incredible how much youve progressed, you are stunning

DEATH BY PREENING.





now, ladies, don't be mean to each other.

I love E.

He is the main geezer.

[Sam]

I don't understand. Why so much anger?

Anger?

I can see the way your mind went when you saw what my previous avatar was(photo of me - how jealous are you?, Needless to say, I got comments by people lik: you look like a genetic girl, its incredible how much youve progressed, you are stunning, etc).

Delusional much? There's a few people I envy a bit, yes (ellie, corvus, PG, skippy... some others - I don't wanna list all names -, some that left, and some that never been here). But you're not one of them. I do not care how people look. Just so you know. But I'm wondering... what does this have to do with anything?

how can I get advice from you, when you judge me so harshly? Just tell me....

Guess I wasn't clear enough. I do not judge you. But I do mind you giving out medical advice without having a degree... And clearly all you know you picked up from other people (any of who I doubt had any experience in the medical field... other than being on a certain regimen for a few months/years) on other forums. More to the point... you have NO clue what peoples bloodwork looks like and yet you give out such advice.

What you do to yourself is your business. What you do to others (by giving out questionable advice) is another matter... what if that hurts them? What then?

I am pretty sure you know what if you wanna disrespect me I have no objection to disrespecting you. Lets see what medical degree you have... if you never would have called me out I would not call you out - How can you call yourself some sort of expert, when you act like this...?

I don't disrespect you. But I don't respect you either. I have no medical degree... but as opposed to you, I don't give out medical advice (aside from 'consult your doctor'). Did I call myself any sort of an expert? Just because I said your advice was dangerous? Or maybe it was the "hormones are not candy"?

[Nicky]

I don't understand. Why so much anger?

Anger?

I can see the way your mind went when you saw what my previous avatar was(photo of me - how jealous are you?, Needless to say, I got comments by people lik: you look like a genetic girl, its incredible how much youve progressed, you are stunning, etc).

Delusional much? There's a few people I envy a bit, yes (ellie, corvus, PG, skippy... some others - I don't wanna list all names -, some that left, and some that never been here). But you're not one of them. I do not care how people look. Just so you know. But I'm wondering... what does this have to do with anything?

how can I get advice from you, when you judge me so harshly? Just tell me....

Guess I wasn't clear enough. I do not judge you. But I do mind you giving out medical advice without having a degree... And clearly all you know you picked up from other people (any of who I doubt had any experience in the medical field... other than being on a certain regimen for a few months/years) on other forums. More to the point... you have NO clue what peoples bloodwork looks like and yet you give out such advice.

What you do to yourself is your business. What you do to others (by giving out questionable advice) is another matter... what if that hurts them? What then?

I am pretty sure you know what if you wanna disrespect me I have no objection to disrespecting you. Lets see what medical degree you have... if you never would have called me out I would not call you out - How can you call yourself some sort of expert, when you act like this...?

I don't disrespect you. But I don't respect you either. I have no medical degree... but as opposed to you, I don't give out medical advice (aside from 'consult your doctor'). Did I call myself any sort of an expert? Just because I said your advice was dangerous? Or maybe it was the "hormones are not candy"?

Again, Ohhh Sam.....

I am just wondering why you haven't quote my whole reply.. 'n u separated t. You missed some important issues. Anyway, I am not expecting you to tell me I am one of the people you envy. It is enough to get comments by other people, I dont need ur confirmation...
first of all everything is peachy, i dont think im causing trouble here, and wont. unless my slang offends you then i dont know. i guess i should only give bland, simple answers..but thats cool. sorry if my language is not cool with you.
second Think before you speak and have a little respect, it's a forum here not your house. I didn't become a member of this forum to end up keep arguing like a kid wid you. I'm only wasting my time talking to you..
I appreciate all the positive comments and even the constructive negative ones. However, some negative comments are just trite reeking of jealousy among other selfish emotions. That makes me sick..

These forums are unique in that we can periodically have some fun too. It's not all seriousness. The people here are a great bunch of people, and they may poke fun from time to time, but they stay light hearted, and if you give them respect they'll give it in return.
If you truly are so judgmental, you need to remember that you represent your neighborhood, class, race, religion, and everything else by the words you choose to say. We all do. You're on display, and you're either solidifying people's opinions on the things you represent, or you're going to change them.
You want to add to a bad reputation, then act like an idiot in public. Blame it on your income and your tough childhood. You want to change people's view of certain races, religions, and classes? Then be unique. Do something they don't expect. Be respectful, intelligent, and tactful. You'll will no longer be a victim, and you'll begin to prove how stupid stereotypes and racism really are.
By doing so you will not freak the members out.

there is only1 thing i dont like about this site..its that I wanted to get more involved here but you prevented me............................................................ I think I may have had 2 posts that may offend/gave hormonal advice some people.i appoligize to any one who took offense/was hurt to those i was just trying to get a point across,to get an answer and get more involved here.
thank you for your comments and put downs..I wont post any more unless urgent. best wishes to all who have a large battle ahead..may you all win your battle..even if just by self medicating...

~Nicky

[Gracie]

Nicky why leave? some people want to go slow or safe they think. i agreed with you, I didn't always have an understanding doctor, the opposite.. the whole idea of changing sex requires a person to be able to think beyond whats "familiar and safe" or what a professional "wants you to do" and into whats new, different and possibly never been done before. I dont know what you look like and it's not important really - whats important is that I know how you think.

Zoey...context my girl...context...cute reference tho..lol

[Sam]

Ok... I want some of those drugs you're taking...

[Peta]

I posted the same on another board. I don't understand any of the hormone treatment and what it would do for me. Gosh I am stupid aren't i. Can someone please explain to me please. Also I have just joined and have a yahoo address, but I am not a nutter, well I don't think think I am.