Best place to live for Transgender?

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Best place to live for Transgender?

Postby Amylin » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:47 pm

My wife and I are looking to move from the aria we live in and were wondering if any of you might have some incite as to were a good place to move would be. Were looking for a gender friendly or as best as we can get to one, aria that we could move into. Regardless of where our relationship ends up taking us once things are said and done with HRT and SRS for me we want to stay close because we have kids that we both care for. However were looking to get out of Michigan because my mom wants to live closer to us and she doesn't like Michigan because of the cold weather.

So if you have any advice please post them here for us. Its greatly appreciated but please be sure to give a good amount of information about the arias you refer us to and not just a live here or there kind of thing.

Thanks
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Postby Microodyke » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:13 pm

Huntsville Alabama is pretty terrific. It's a medium sized city with the feel of an overgrown small town. Dee and I have a 2000 sq ft house on half an acre and pay $260 a year in property taxes. Housing prices are relatively low, folks are gracious....what you hear about southern hospitality is true....schools are good...plenty of cultural stimulus and minor league and college sporting teams. Two state universities, a state community college, a private university and several private colleges. There's a military base and Marshall space flight center, so plenty of employment opportunities for engineering oriented folk.

And it's been years since I've seen a "Keep Alabama Beautiful, Send a Yankee Home" bumper sticker!

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Re: Best place to live for Transgender?

Postby Erica » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:08 pm

It's kind of hard to say since you didn't disclose much about your requirements other than that you want it to be GLBT friendly and warm. My town, Austin is the best place I've ever lived, and is very open if you can afford to live in town, but it's a liberal oasis in the center of a very "red" state.

How about Florida? It's not my cup of tea because I can't stand uber humidity, but there are a lot of trans folk there, and from everything I'm hearing you can pick up a house for a song.

Atlanta maybe if you can stand living somewhere that it rains 15 out of every 60 minutes.

How about N'aleans? You can't get much more open minded than that, and I think there are still plenty of bargains to be had there if you're willing to do some cleanup.
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Postby DYSSONANCE » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:10 pm

Hmmm.

Having been stationed at Redstone, I shall refrain from comment on Huntsville except that if you like big shiny rockets its pretty cool.

I will, however, proffer my insight on what I unabashedly call the best place; which is, of course, Phoenix.

Aside from being the 5th largest city in the nation, it is remarkable in that while we do have our fair share of nitwits and expletive-heads, for the most part, people simply don't care. Besides, it *almost* never snows.

Hard to compete with the cost of living in Huntsville, though, lol
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Postby DYSSONANCE » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:15 pm

Have to say, I have heard good things about Austin.
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Postby nexyjo » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:45 pm

i second phoenix!
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Postby Christine » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:59 am

nexyjo wrote:i second phoenix!


Phonenix and Tuscan Arizona are pretty nice bolth openly minded.
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Postby nexyjo » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:58 pm

we have our share of, um, not nice people, but there are lots of areas where us queer folks are well accepted. here in phoenix we even have an area that's very much lgbt called the melrose section. lots of friendly stores, housing, etc.
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Postby Sandkat » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:19 pm

Austin is an awesome city. Almost recommend people move there.
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Postby Andina » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:17 am

I've never had any problems but filtering the reports here over the years it seems that smaller towns are better than the big cities.
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Postby LizziemcTrucker » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:37 pm

I was going to say NYC because there are a lot of oddities there so something as mundane as a transsexual is no big deal. However the cost of living there is insane.

..so I'm voting for Austin (plus I have 2 friends that live there and rave about it)

and it says something where there's a campaign to "Keep Austin Weird".
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Postby Christine » Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:53 am

LizziemcTrucker wrote:I was going to say NYC because there are a lot of oddities there so something as mundane as a transsexual is no big deal. However the cost of living there is insane.

..so I'm voting for Austin (plus I have 2 friends that live there and rave about it)

and it says something where there's a campaign to "Keep Austin Weird".


Well for oddities and wierd my money is on San Fran. :lol:
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Postby AttitudePlus1 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:55 am

Austin you could almost walk down MLK Blvd with nothing more than a hat on and I dont think anyone would care, will maybe the cops but no one else.
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Postby REM1126 » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:55 am

I think I am going to plan a field trip to Austin, TX. I have GOT to see this place for myself.

(BTW, that is something I never even considered for a moment until this thread).

I might go the long way through Huntsville, AL to get there. It sounds like it has changed a lot since last time I was there.
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Postby DYSSONANCE » Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:21 pm

Austin's problem is that it has no social services or systems in place that are aware of trans issues.

Phoenix and Tucson, however, has after all produced a lot of effective advocates over the years (Donna Rose, Dr. Rebecca Allison, Monica Helms, FTM international, SAGA, and more...).

ANd thanks to the work of a lot of us, its a very aware city where people go "eh".
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Postby xrk9854 » Tue Apr 07, 2009 2:46 am

I prefer rural life in a liberal part of the country; where fewer people know about transsexualism (it's just not on their radar) and even fewer care. :)
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Postby Andina » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:01 am

xrk9854 wrote:I prefer rural life in a liberal part of the country; where fewer people know about transsexualism (it's just not on their radar) and even fewer care. :)
That's OK if you have already transitioned and can go stealth. If you are still going through transition, you need a society where they are knowledgeable about transgender so they are more tolerant. Fortunately with the publicity we have received in the last 10 years, we are not the freaks we used to be.
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Postby Andrea » Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:28 am

Andina wrote:
xrk9854 wrote:I prefer rural life in a liberal part of the country; where fewer people know about transsexualism (it's just not on their radar) and even fewer care. :)
That's OK if you have already transitioned and can go stealth. If you are still going through transition, you need a society where they are knowledgeable about transgender so they are more tolerant. Fortunately with the publicity we have received in the last 10 years, we are not the freaks we used to be.


Now we are freaks with rights heheheh
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Postby Sandkat » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:16 am

I might also mention that I transitioned in Columbus, OH which has a great trans program and quite a few trans people.
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Postby Amylin » Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:41 am

I was looking things up about where the best places in each state to live as a transgender and found that the worst states are Texas and Tennessee. I checked into OH and considering I live in MI right now and OH is so close to it I'd like to get a little further away I think (as in south more).

I prefer rural life in a liberal part of the country; where fewer people know about transsexualism (it's just not on their radar) and even fewer care.
That sounds more like what I want xrk9854.


As for Austin TX Austin and Dallas both have some good arias to live as a transgender but from what I have read you have to stay away from the country arias because they are brutal about just about everything that doesn't involve them being on top. Top that off I lived in Point TX and Greenville TX for about 2 years and jobs there are next to ahhhh 0. We had to go to Dallas for work most of the time. However good news is I have one more year of schooling and the field I am going into is web design so for the most part I can do my work at home, but will need to get some xp under my belt and was hoping to do that by working for a company for about 6 months to a year.

Christine and LizziemcTrucker yes in my searches both those two states are on the top for any of us to live in. However everything is to close together and I like to stretch my arms. That and I don't want to be bumping my breasts against everyone and everything because of how compact they are. Oh and earth quakes scare the bejesus out of me.

Andina I agree 100% "I've never had any problems but filtering the reports here over the years it seems that smaller towns are better than the big cities."

I'd do Phoenix almost any day of the week because its a nice warm place, low altitude (nice for my back), and close to a lot of fun stuff. The only down fall right now is when I asked my mother and wife about Phoenix they both said "NO WAY.".. :( "Its to hot, too dusty, and not for me."...

DYSSONANCE, I will have to see if Huntsville would work for my mother and wife. Its far enough from the oceans and may other problems that it might work. I'll talk to them and see what they think.

And for those of you that need more information about this.

We're looking for a place where my Mom (who lives in TX), my wife, children, and myself will all be able to enjoy. Were looking for something warm enough that we get little to no snow in the winter. Somewhere where we can have a large yard and lots of room to expand. The cities you all brought up are a good start for me to do some research on and they have all been good places. As of right now the only place that was brought up that might work (or being close to it) would be Huntsville but I have to talk things over with the other 2 ladies in my life.

Basically were looking to buy something and move in no later then NEXT summer. I want to be able to have a 4 sectioned home that we can all have our own parts to.

Example to the above home:
One section for the main part of the home. The main part of the home would have the family living room, dinning room, and kitchen.

The second section of our home would be the kids zone. It would be set up so that each of our 3 children would have a place to be that they could feel safe, enjoy what they have, and have room to move. There would be 3 rooms, with a bathroom for each, a library filled with books for them, and an entertainment room where they could have video games, movies, and what not.

The last three sections of the home would have a bedroom, bathroom, living room, and extra room. There would be a section for my wife, mother, and self.

Each section would have a door that could be closed to give privacy from the rest of the family.

So thats the home that I plan on making and both my mother and wife want the same thing. The only thing is I have to have a place to start, so the land needs to be a minimum of .5 acres and I will need to have a nice size home for us to live in and be able to just add the sections as we get the funds to do so.

After writing all this up and what not I took a loot at some maps and I'm kinda thinking (myself) Kentucky, inner parts of Virginia and North/South Carolina, Norther parts of Georgia and Alabama. I'd like to stay away from the Mississippi river and Oceanic water fronts. So do any of you have any incite on one of the states I listed?
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Postby Erica » Tue Apr 07, 2009 1:00 pm

Amylin wrote:I was looking things up about where the best places in each state to live as a transgender and found that the worst states are Texas and Tennessee. I checked into OH and considering I live in MI right now and OH


Could you share the source of this ranking? I'm not really sure I understand the relevance of looking at this from a state perspective. Are you concerned about rights and privileges the state grants to TG folk? If so, then you're probably correct that TX will be down near the bottom of the list of states that will be making large scale changes to the laws any time soon (short of federal intervention in this matter).

However this isn't something that I really consider nor worry about. I'm far more concerned with quality of life in the town/city that I live in. On that account Austin is hard to beat. People here are as open minded as you're ever likely to find, short of San Fran. Plus there are the day to day good times, jobs, jobs, jobs, nice weather, entertainment galore etc...

I don't delude myself into thinking that I would be welcome with open arms were I to hop in my car and start touring west TX. It's a big ass state. I have hardly seen any of it, and I've lived in Austin now for 10 years so obviously this isn't a big concern to me. Also the positive influence of Austin is far more likely to spread outward, than is the reverse case of the backwards influence of the outer regions overrunning Austin.

I've lived in NYC and in LA, so you know where my head is at lifestyle and attitude wise. After living here for 10 years, I'd have to say that I wouldn't trade my life here to go back to either of those places.

As far as support orgs, we do have some see, http://www.cttgs.org/


I am going into is web design so for the most part I can do my work at home, but will need to get some xp under my belt and was hoping to do that by working for a company for about 6 months to a year.


You do know that Austin is huge technology hub right? The job market is what brought me here originally. Other than the shakeup of the .com crash, things have been very stable here work wise.
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Postby xrk9854 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:45 am

Amylin wrote:
I prefer rural life in a liberal part of the country; where fewer people know about transsexualism (it's just not on their radar) and even fewer care.


That sounds more like what I want xrk9854.


Have you considered New England? Except for northern Maine it's pretty liberal up here. It isn't a coincidence that 3 of the states that have marriage equality are located here. And if it passes in New Hampshire this month, make that 4 states.
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Postby Amylin » Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:57 am

When it comes to sources its all research through Google that I have done. Asking questions like the safest place for transgenders/transwomen/LGBT (both that way and written out full), high populated KKK arias, high populated anti LGBT, and stuff like that.

Austin TX was one of the top rated for cities that I found but TX over all is one of the lowest rated.

When I say rated I based it off of 3 things aria of anti LGBT groups or groups much like the KKK, over all support offered, and the number of facilities for transgenders (facilities as in counselors/doctors/so on, associated or associating their work to transgenders). If I were to go by cities it would take forever to do at this point in time, so I went by states to start then once I found a state that I liked I would check in to the cities.

TX itself is heavy with the anti LGBT, KKK, and so on groups. However just because TX has a lot of hate groups doesn't mean that Austin is one of those cities and doesn't mean that it isn't a good place to live. I tried to make that clear before but I guess I didn't do that well.

Yes I know Austin is a a technology hub, however the good news is no matter where I live I can do my job because I can do my work at home. ;)
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Postby Amylin » Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:02 am

xrk9854 wrote:
Amylin wrote:
I prefer rural life in a liberal part of the country; where fewer people know about transsexualism (it's just not on their radar) and even fewer care.


That sounds more like what I want xrk9854.


Have you considered New England? Except for northern Maine it's pretty liberal up here. It isn't a coincidence that 3 of the states that have marriage equality are located here. And if it passes in New Hampshire this month, make that 4 states.


To cold, tooooo cold, oh and TOOO COLD. lol Michigan is the coldest I ever want to be again. Thats why I'm looking into mid/southern states.

Did you hear that Vermont joined the list of same sex marriages?

"Vermont becomes 4th U.S. state to allow gay marriage | Reuters
Apr 7, 2009 ... BOSTON (Reuters) - Vermont legalized gay marriage on Tuesday after lawmakers overrode a veto from the governor by a wafer-thin margin, ...
www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE53648V20090407"
simple google search. lol

I was watching T.V. last night because I'm not feeling good and I tend to watch a lot of T.V. when I don't feel good otherwise when I do feel fine I watch T.V. almost never. lol So yeah, I was watching T.V. and it came on the news.
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Postby xrk9854 » Wed Apr 08, 2009 10:32 am

Amylin wrote:To cold, tooooo cold, oh and TOOO COLD. lol Michigan is the coldest I ever want to be again. Thats why I'm looking into mid/southern states.


Most of New England is WARMER than Michigan.

Did you hear that Vermont joined the list of same sex marriages?

"Vermont becomes 4th U.S. state to allow gay marriage | Reuters
Apr 7, 2009 ... BOSTON (Reuters) - Vermont legalized gay marriage on Tuesday after lawmakers overrode a veto from the governor by a wafer-thin margin, ...
www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE53648V20090407"
simple google search. lol


Yes, Vermont became the fourth state, but as I said 3 of the 4 are all in New England (Vermont, Connecticut and Massachusetts).
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Postby Lydia » Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:08 pm

There are some decent rents where I live, in Cypress California. I mean, a lot of rents are unaffordable, but those are the ones to ignore. It is actually relatively affordable to live here, everything is very convenient and you can walk just about anywhere at any time. Add to that the fact that since it is so close to Long Beach that even the Stepford people who live here can not coerce the culture too drastically, and it's a pretty good place to live all around. It has all the comforts that you would expect to find in Orange county, but without the zombie like neighborhood committee culture. Add to that the fact that it has a highly diverse population, and its proximity to Hawaiian Gardens keeps the prices from being out of control, and I'd say it's actually really nice to live here overall. Just my two cents.
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Postby sakura » Sun Apr 12, 2009 7:36 pm

I'm definitely not a texas person, I wish they would secede from the union, along with a few other states, but i will say that I have heard many good things about Austin, as far as being open minded, and the same for Dallas and Houston. Not that I would ever live there, but probably a good option for you.

As much as l like Long Beach for myself, I would have a hard time recommending it, especially to midwesterners (which I was once one). I just don't think most people from the midwest could really stand some of the negatives you have to put up with here, unless you have a really compelling reason to be here, such as you are trying to work in entertainment, etc. The traffic, the crowding, the pollution, and the rampant diversity don't bother me, but they do bother a lot of other people who are not used to them. You can find great weather, and even an ocean view, in many places across the country, but if you are unsure of whether you will like it here, you probably won't. Many people born here would love to leave, but they have a hard time severing their roots. As for me, I manage to avoid the traffic, love to eat at authentic ethic restaurants, shop at asian grocery stores, and like the diversity of options with regards to culture and nightlife. And while I don't like living in the cold, I do get sick of the sun and miss the seasons, not mention thunderstorms. And there are a large number of trans people and resources here, in fact there are so many that it is easy to get lost in the crowd, so a smaller city could actually be a plus.

Good luck in whatever you decide, just remember that the search should be half the fun, so take your time and try a few places out before you decide for sure. Moving across the country can be a great experience if you have the right attitude.[/i]
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Best Place to Live for Transgenders

Postby Abbie » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:28 am

Please spell "Tucson" correctly. We tend to get a bit crazy when it's spelled "Tuscon."

Tucson is a very TG/TS friendly place to live. Kind of hot in the summer, but the rest of the year is very nice.
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Postby DYSSONANCE » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:17 pm

As a hint regarding Tucson, the idea is Tuck Son, ;)

Although its pronounced Two Son

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Postby JTPretender » Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:57 pm

Surprisingly enough, Tulsa, Oklahoma isn't all that bad for LGBT. We have a pretty huge community here and a not high instance of violence against LGBT outside of the schools. I faced some trouble in the suburb I lived in for a few years, but the main city is pretty open minded. Of course, we also have a pretty huge pagan/alternative religion community as well which has probably helped.

Tulsa's not the biggest city in the US, but it's the second biggest in Oklahoma! XD Erin and I like it, anyway.
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Postby transplantedinfla » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:07 pm

I would not recomend north florida or georga or alabama.
unless you pass 120%, you will be subject to discrimination, subtle, but still discrimination.
Your job you had as a male may go bye-bye unless there is absolute company and legal protections.
Housing in Florida is pretty much at the whim of your landlord.
IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY FOR YOUR OWN HOME, that is a differant matter.
Personally, if I could afford it, North California or Washington.
New mexico is pricy in some areas and work is non-existant unless you want to work at convergys or someplace like that.
However New Mexico and New Jersey are a handfull of states that do offer legal employment and housing protections for transgender folks.
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Postby DreamingEmerald » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:22 pm

Lydia wrote:There are some decent rents where I live, in Cypress California. I mean, a lot of rents are unaffordable, but those are the ones to ignore. It is actually relatively affordable to live here, everything is very convenient and you can walk just about anywhere at any time. Add to that the fact that since it is so close to Long Beach that even the Stepford people who live here can not coerce the culture too drastically, and it's a pretty good place to live all around. It has all the comforts that you would expect to find in Orange county, but without the zombie like neighborhood committee culture. Add to that the fact that it has a highly diverse population, and its proximity to Hawaiian Gardens keeps the prices from being out of control, and I'd say it's actually really nice to live here overall. Just my two cents.


Depending on my job situation, I might be moving to SoCal, possibly the Long Beach area. Sadly I don't really know anyone down there as I am NoCal born and raised.
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Postby AlannaRoe » Fri Apr 17, 2009 8:35 am

i'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the denver area..

it's a beautiful area, beautiful state, and a decent cost of living (as long as you don't live close to downtown denver), friendly people and a good amount of diversity. it's listed as one of the most disabled-accessible cities in the country, and lgbt persons are taken in stride. as a plus, denver has one of the best public transportation systems in the west.

add in the fact that the city of denver and the state of colorado have legal protections for transgendered people, and that colorado is quite possibly the easiest state in which to get the gender designator changed on your license/id (thanks to the incumbent governer, who is solidly lgbt-friendly), and i think denver is a pretty nice place to live.

my one disclaimer is that i transitioned in the middle of right-wing conservative hell, eg, colorado springs, co, so to me a liberal city like denver seems like paradise in comparision. still, no matter how you look at it, the denver area has a lot going for it.
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Postby Gustav » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:56 am

Whoa, it seems like there are really a lot of us on this board that live in SoCal!
I've been having a pretty good time of things, though I do admittedly spend most of my time on campus, and the school in questions has been cited as particularly diverse and LGBT-friendly (hormones and surgery just got added to the grad student health plan!)...

As for cities that most likely won't give you crap for being trans, though:
Image
(Surprised this one hasn't had more discussion in this thread. But maybe I'm just noticing that more because I'm going there for the weekend - whoo!)
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Postby xrk9854 » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:35 pm

Gustav wrote:As for cities that most likely won't give you crap for being trans, though:
Image
(Surprised this one hasn't had more discussion in this thread. But maybe I'm just noticing that more because I'm going there for the weekend - whoo!)


You're missing the obvious drawback:

Everyone in the San Francisco area probably has highly developed "T-dar". Meaning people will clock you left and right. That's why I prefer living in the country where people are a LOT less knowledgeable. San Francisco is great, but it comes at a high price. I for one don't want to pay that price. A lot less stress here in the country.
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Postby AshleyAshes » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:39 pm

You also don't want to know what the property prices go for in most gay villages. 'Gentrification' much? :P
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Postby JTPretender » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:52 pm

AlannaRoe wrote:i'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the denver area..

it's a beautiful area, beautiful state, and a decent cost of living (as long as you don't live close to downtown denver), friendly people and a good amount of diversity. it's listed as one of the most disabled-accessible cities in the country, and lgbt persons are taken in stride. as a plus, denver has one of the best public transportation systems in the west.

add in the fact that the city of denver and the state of colorado have legal protections for transgendered people, and that colorado is quite possibly the easiest state in which to get the gender designator changed on your license/id (thanks to the incumbent governer, who is solidly lgbt-friendly), and i think denver is a pretty nice place to live.

my one disclaimer is that i transitioned in the middle of right-wing conservative hell, eg, colorado springs, co, so to me a liberal city like denver seems like paradise in comparision. still, no matter how you look at it, the denver area has a lot going for it.


Funny enough, Erin and I are planning on living outside Denver in the future, once we can afford to move XD
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Postby kat779 » Thu May 28, 2009 8:18 pm

xrk9854 wrote:I prefer rural life in a liberal part of the country; where fewer people know about transsexualism (it's just not on their radar) and even fewer care. :)


Do you live in Trans-Heaven? Can you message me and tell me where this mythical place exists?

Are there good milkshakes there?
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Postby Microodyke » Thu May 28, 2009 10:22 pm

it's not just me, Kiplinger magazine rated Huntsville as the #1 place to live this week!
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Postby kat779 » Thu May 28, 2009 11:03 pm

One would think Bama wouldn't be very friendly to very many like us...(Us meaning not only Transpeople but non-heterosexuals as well.)

Then again I know nothing of that state save from stereotypes and here-say.
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Postby Microodyke » Fri May 29, 2009 6:44 am

That's the problem with sterotypes, the reputation of lots of good folks gets tarnished for no good reason. We have found the people here to be nothing sort of gracious. We live our lives openly and honestly and act as if we are entitled to have a life, and we get a response in kind.
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Postby kat779 » Fri May 29, 2009 7:10 am

Really? Maybe I won't have to move from the South after all...
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Postby AttitudePlus1 » Fri May 29, 2009 8:57 am

I say we take over a nice tropical country, install a puppet government, treat everyone good and we would have a place that would be totally LGBT friendly. Barbados would be nice.
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Postby kat779 » Fri May 29, 2009 9:03 am

Can we pick our own titles and offices of government?

I wanna be Mistress of Recreational Activities.
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Postby Tgirl51 » Fri May 29, 2009 2:57 pm

@kat779: I wanna be Mistress of Science and Technology.

We'll design inexpensive cars that run on vegtable oil. The whole country will smell like french fries. (Yum)

We'll make all natural cosmetics and perfumes that make you look and smell great without poisioning you. (And without hurting animals)

We'll grow our own hemp and trade some of it with the Netherlands, keeping the best crops for ourselves. :)

(What a beautiful world it would be...)

:TGirl51.
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Postby kat779 » Fri May 29, 2009 3:58 pm

Sounds great...

Who'd be President/Dictator/Goddess-In-Charge?
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Postby AttitudePlus1 » Fri May 29, 2009 4:08 pm

Who'd be President/Dictator/Goddess-In-Charge?


Definitely not me I would rather be Mistress of Agriculture, and Trade.
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Postby kat779 » Fri May 29, 2009 5:34 pm

I say we have a democracy with no set head of government but a convening body of elected officials.

Hmm...gives me ideas for a story....
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Postby kim_guyton » Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:18 am

portland, oregon is a nice place to live. there is a large trans community and good medical resources. the weather is ok with mild summers. the winters were bearable and this is from someone that had never seen real snow before moving there..
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