My transition!!

RLT, HRT, FFS, and SRS Support

My transition!!

Postby Nicky » Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:47 am

Hi all,

I'm new here so I'm looking for some advice.
Well first off,Im MTF and self medicate, have been on 250mg of spironolactone for 6 months as of August 24th and I want to fully transition... I am thinking about adding 0,1mg/day Lynoral(Ethinyloestradiol) to my regimen which I have learned so far that can lead to more potent estrogenic effects and excellent feminising effects and it has been found to be more potent than Oestradiol Valerate due to its high potency and longlife. The big issue with lynoral is that it is way too expensive.
Anyone have any idea of what estrogen supplements I can take with good price and excellent feminising effects? Would 2 or 3 pills of diane35/day(2 or 3x0,035mg ethinyloestradiol which is about equal to 0,1mg/day Lynora(Ethinyloestradiol)) be an option? cuz diane35 is way cheaper than lynoral?

Also, does anybody here takes andocur(cyproterone acetate)? I heard that it speeds up the effects of estrogen hormones and more potent anti-androgen than spironolactone.

Also, I have some questions for anyone who is willing to answer... I have been only on 250mg spirolonactone now and my breasts are hardening and taking shape. Im just wondering what would be a good pre-op hrt and was wondering what your regimens were like and what results you got from it.

Thanks for listening and any advice you have.
Well, before I start ranting about pointless stuff, Im going to stop for now, and ask more questions later I guess.

~Nicky
User avatar
Nicky
New
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby Vicky » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:26 am

I am strictly following an MD supervised and monitored (endocrinologist, therapist, and psychiatrist) program, and intend to keep it that way. Unless you DO have your own MD degree and Licentiate in Pharmacy, you could all too soon qualify for the impersonal care of a Pathologist, and even with those degrees, if you are following your own advice, you have a pretty clueless patient. A relative of mine, who IS a heart surgeon, will not operate on himself, for obvious reasons.

My attitude is not the WORST one in this group on that subject!!! :mrgreen:

(In all truth, we would like to keep you alive for a long healthy old age in your preferred gender!!)
Vicky --

I refuse to have a war of wits with a half armed opponent!!!!

Be wary of strong drink, it can make you shoot at tax collectors ---- and miss! - Lazarus Long
User avatar
Vicky
Member
 
Posts: 1234
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:48 pm
Location: San Gabriel Valley CA

Re: My transition!!

Postby Nicky » Mon Feb 15, 2010 12:42 pm

Vicky wrote:I am strictly following an MD supervised and monitored (endocrinologist, therapist, and psychiatrist) program, and intend to keep it that way. Unless you DO have your own MD degree and Licentiate in Pharmacy, you could all too soon qualify for the impersonal care of a Pathologist, and even with those degrees, if you are following your own advice, you have a pretty clueless patient. A relative of mine, who IS a heart surgeon, will not operate on himself, for obvious reasons.

My attitude is not the WORST one in this group on that subject!!! :mrgreen:

(In all truth, we would like to keep you alive for a long healthy old age in your preferred gender!!)



I think you're right because self medication would be unwise. And I think counselling would probably be a good idea. Iv just started an anit-androgen but with me self medicating it cost just a little to much for me to spring for at the moment every 2 weeks. I was hoping just starting the ball rolling on the antiandrogen side would get things moving and then slowly start to bring in estradiol(lynoral, estrofem or etrrace) as I can. It's just so much to take in to begin with.

But I probably think you're being very kind to me. I do need to be more informed. There is so much to know, and I could go so far with these hormones. I can't imagine what I'll be like when I sort myself out properly. The doctor was too do with medicaton last appointment they told me they are finding me help for the transgender feelings. Im thinking about starting out with 2mg Estrogen sublingual (maybe estrofem as lynoral is way too expensive) per day and gradually increase the dose to 8mg/day. Whats your opinion?

BTW that's me in the avatar, the only thing missing is estrogen, spiro works for me. Anyway, thanks for being concerned and carring about my well being.
User avatar
Nicky
New
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby nexyjo » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:16 pm

while i know that a number of people successfully self-medicate, we always recommend that one transitions medically under the supervision of a qualified medical professional. they'll typically monitor your blood work and liver function, and catch many negative effects before they become unhealthy or terminal. there are many comprehensive websites on the internet that indicate typical hormone regimens - google is your friend.
User avatar
nexyjo
Board Moderator
 
Posts: 7626
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 8:16 pm
Location: phoenix

Re: My transition!!

Postby JamieC » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:43 am

Actually if you it is super hard to get a therapist/doctor/endo, it is very useful to do some research on your own. (I have no insurance at all :( Really, I found it useful to look up wikipedia and search for all the medical terms. Educate yourself. Go the a university library and access all the loads of primary medical research documents. Read the stuff doctors will read to keep up on their subject. We all know doctors have spent years learning what they do but even they have to keep up with modern medicines. If you go and access those medical review papers and what not, it would go a long way in shedding some light on your path. Many informative review papers/ research papers are online now- take a day and read and learn. Heck you might find it's fascinating and keep reading for fun!

On the other hand, what doctors can provide you with are the important blood tests. Also if you have diebetes, high/low blood pressure, high cholesterol, anything out of the ordinary, the medical supervision is highly recommended.

On your breast growth on just anti-androgens, it is possible to get some growth, but that is purely to your natural estrogen working as testosterone action is being blocked (or antagonized) by the spiro. If you get some estradiol in there, you can expect a lot more. On your dosage of estrogen, I do think 8mg is too much. Women who are in menopause usually take up to 2mg a day - that's because 2mg is enough to elevate serum estradiol levels above that of a pre-menopause woman! IMO, I would raise E to 4 maybe 5mg max, but that's my opinion. Age and body weight does play a big role in dosing too. If you're still young (early 20s) you shouldnt have to wait too long for E to work.

Hope that helped! Let me know if you have any questions
JamieC
New
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:49 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby Nicky » Tue Feb 16, 2010 3:54 pm

nexyjo wrote:while i know that a number of people successfully self-medicate, we always recommend that one transitions medically under the supervision of a qualified medical professional. they'll typically monitor your blood work and liver function, and catch many negative effects before they become unhealthy or terminal. there are many comprehensive websites on the internet that indicate typical hormone regimens - google is your friend.



Hi nexyjo,

Thank you for the advice and help.I will try to get more informed since im not under the supervision of a qualified medical professional. I have been surfing the web and I'm just one step before finding the right estrogen addition.
I really appreciate your help. This is all so overwhelming :) *hug*
User avatar
Nicky
New
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby Nicky » Tue Feb 16, 2010 4:39 pm

JamieC wrote:Actually if you it is super hard to get a therapist/doctor/endo, it is very useful to do some research on your own. (I have no insurance at all :( Really, I found it useful to look up wikipedia and search for all the medical terms. Educate yourself. Go the a university library and access all the loads of primary medical research documents. Read the stuff doctors will read to keep up on their subject. We all know doctors have spent years learning what they do but even they have to keep up with modern medicines. If you go and access those medical review papers and what not, it would go a long way in shedding some light on your path. Many informative review papers/ research papers are online now- take a day and read and learn. Heck you might find it's fascinating and keep reading for fun!

On the other hand, what doctors can provide you with are the important blood tests. Also if you have diebetes, high/low blood pressure, high cholesterol, anything out of the ordinary, the medical supervision is highly recommended.

On your breast growth on just anti-androgens, it is possible to get some growth, but that is purely to your natural estrogen working as testosterone action is being blocked (or antagonized) by the spiro. If you get some estradiol in there, you can expect a lot more. On your dosage of estrogen, I do think 8mg is too much. Women who are in menopause usually take up to 2mg a day - that's because 2mg is enough to elevate serum estradiol levels above that of a pre-menopause woman! IMO, I would raise E to 4 maybe 5mg max, but that's my opinion. Age and body weight does play a big role in dosing too. If you're still young (early 20s) you shouldnt have to wait too long for E to work.

Hope that helped! Let me know if you have any questions




Well first off, thanks JamieC - that's getting to the question.

I will try to search for all the medical terms and learn about hrt as much as possible. and Yeah I'm 21 yo and it is good to hear the news that if you're still young (early 20s) you shouldnt have to wait too long for E to work.

One question for you:

According to my own research, Progynova that is the brand name for estradiol valerate and Estrofem or estrace on the other hand that is the brand name for 17beta-estradiol are the most common estrogen hormones used by male-to-female transsexuals that are also very safe. Ethinylestradiol(Lynoral) is one of the older and most dangerous kinds of estrogens when it comes to blood clotting, so it's out of the question.

Which of the two(Progynova or Estrofem, estrace) would you recommend me adding to my regimen, leading to more potent estrogenic effects and excellent feminising effects?
I don't really know what the difference between estradiol valerate and straight forward 17beta-estradiol is and I just want to get the most excellent feminizing effects I can taking the best estrogen hormone(Progynova or Estrofem, estrace ). Im planning on starting out with 2mg Estrogen sublingually per day and gradually increase the dose to 4-5mg, as 8mg is too much.

The reply I received was waaay beyond my expectations. You have been so helpful to me. and Thanks again for all the info and help.

Thanx,
~Nicky
User avatar
Nicky
New
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby SentientTgurl2 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:24 pm

You should count yourself lucky about your age, I've met a few people in their late 20s and up who have suffered from clots due to Lynoral/Ethinyl Estradiol It's prescribed in the lowest possible dose to prevent pregnancy in GGs which is about 20-35 mcg a day, you're taking several times. Bad for the liver, and bad for blood clots both can lead to death
SentientTgurl2
Member
 
Posts: 477
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 6:00 pm

Re: My transition!!

Postby Nicky » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:12 am

SentientTgurl2 wrote:You should count yourself lucky about your age, I've met a few people in their late 20s and up who have suffered from clots due to Lynoral/Ethinyl Estradiol It's prescribed in the lowest possible dose to prevent pregnancy in GGs which is about 20-35 mcg a day, you're taking several times. Bad for the liver, and bad for blood clots both can lead to death


Yeah, you are right, Ethinylestradiol(Lynoral) is one of the older and most dangerous kinds of estrogens when it comes to blood clotting, so it's out of the question. I am considering adding estrofem or progynova.
Im thinking about adding progynova to my regimen since it is cheaper than estrofen, what do you think?
User avatar
Nicky
New
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby ♥Muffin♥ » Thu Feb 18, 2010 11:19 am

I've been taking progynova for seven months and I'm considering changing to estrofem. Reasons are I want to go bioidentical and to be taking a micronised estrogen.. but I'm still researching them. My GP hasn't even heard of estrace so it's all a bit confusing not to mention annoying :P
I will be trying a new GP soon.
I'm also going to start on a progesterone (Prometrium) and also on Avodart for my hair (not that it's bad just it could help).
♥Muffin♥
Member
 
Posts: 182
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:15 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby JamieC » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:18 pm

Well honestly I don't know much difference between EV and 17b-estradiol. EV has one 5 carbon chain added to the oxygen on the pentose ring on estradiol but this probably gets cleaved off really quickly and easily once EV enters the body. Once this chain is cleaved off (seems like a standard reaction to me - don't remember much of organic chem) it's the exact same molecule as 17b-estradiol. Google pics of the molecues if you want.

EV and 17b-estradiol look pretty comparable to me. What might matter is if the pills are micronized or not. This probably has to do with how small the particles are that make up the pill. Micronized pills (estrofem I think) may have better absorption? Im no expert on this. Does anyone know which pills are micronized?
JamieC
New
 
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:49 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby supreme_pizza » Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:00 am

I've heard good things about androcur elsewhere. Not FDA approved but you can get it pretty much everywhere else including canada so I assume it's safe. Can't testify to that myself though. It's supposed to be the choice for MTF overseas though. 17b-estradiol is what my doc has me on. Works better than the conjugated estrogen I took before. The greatest reason to consult the dr though is to take as little as possible to get the best effect. Get educated though, as much as you can. Even with a dr and endo and shrink you can't always find the answers to your questions.
User avatar
supreme_pizza
Member
 
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:21 pm
Location: TMI --

Re: My transition!!

Postby SorchaA » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:50 am

My doctor has put me on Microgynon 50 ED and spironolactone however before that i was self medicating for over a year. There have being times where i have thought "OMG why do i take these things they can kill me" i even tried to get off them, fat chance there i afraid.

when i was self medicating i took lots stuff, this is some of it.

Siterone (cyproterone acetate)
Ginette 35 aka (diane35)
Microgest (micronised progesterone)
Progynova (estradiol valerate)
Estrofem (17ß-oestradiol)

I had to many side effects from cyproterone acetate.

either Progynova or Estrofem are good, i tried Estrofem first but changed to Progynova after i read that it was better for you. (the blood clot thing)

I took 5mg of Progynova for about five months and may have worked better if i had started taking spironolactone a lot sooner.

All though that year when i was self medicating all i wanted was a doctor to tell me the right amount to take i got scared that i was killing myself with these drugs that that i tried to get myself of them. i had a bad reaction to trying to do that my local doctor told me to keep taking them until i'd seen the endocrinologist.

Anyhow i hope this helps.
Good luck

Ashley
A mtf from australia :)
I'm on hormones.
I'm full time.
SorchaA
Member
 
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 10:14 pm
Location: Australia

Re: My transition!!

Postby Genevieve74 » Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:15 pm

Used both spiro and androcur, and can honestly say the androcur has had much less in the way of side effects (for me, at least). Spiro was causing a rebound effect with my blood pressure at times, and me and the doc really didn't like that.

I have at times self medicated, but I did the reading, and brutally exploited a loophole in my health care (which didn't cover HRT, trust me), but were willing to pay for monthly blood tests to check liver function and enzymes because of my 20 mg of Zocor per day. As a non-smoker / non-drinker / nominal weight / avid runner the levels of hormones I have taken haven't caused any problems.

Currently 4 mg estrofem, 50 mg siterone, 200mg (cycled) microgest.
Genevieve74
Member
 
Posts: 268
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:56 pm
Location: Somewhere, out there

Re: My transition!!

Postby Nicky » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:44 pm

Ohhhhhhh GIRLS,

Really, Thanks for all the help and information on all things. I thought I'd post a follow-up. I haven't had time to really interact with anyone on here like I'd like to(including my post in topic: Message to werewolf(or anyone else who knows))...
I'm very busy with college and family. In time I plan on getting more involved here... I just wanted to say thanks to all of you for putting out such great advice.
Just a quick update:

- My current regimen:
250mg/day spiro
0,5mg/day dutasteride
- My plan:
Adding 25mg of cyproterone acetate(this or next week) to my regimen and gradually increase the dose to 50mg/day, snce I've heard cyprt.acetate is far more effective than spiro and it has a progestogenic component, and decreasing the dose of spiro to 200mg/day or even 150mg. Also adding 2mg progynova(sublingual) and gradually increasing the dose to 4 or maybe 6mg just to get the most excellent feminising effects.

Anyway, thanks again for the replies, girls. If there wasn't this forum, I(self medicating) probably would have just sucked it up and suffered with my incorrect moves(regimen). Getting feedback from others that I might have some basis for complaint and how to proceed with getting things corrected is truly empowering.

Thanks will be back to let you know, how it goes.

Take care,

-- Nicky
Last edited by Nicky on Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:58 pm, edited 4 times in total.
User avatar
Nicky
New
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am

Re: My transition!!

Postby Nicky » Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:59 pm

♥Muffin♥ wrote:I've been taking progynova for seven months and I'm considering changing to estrofem. Reasons are I want to go bioidentical and to be taking a micronised estrogen.. but I'm still researching them. My GP hasn't even heard of estrace so it's all a bit confusing not to mention annoying :P
I will be trying a new GP soon.
I'm also going to start on a progesterone (Prometrium) and also on Avodart for my hair (not that it's bad just it could help).



Avodart is not enough in preventing hairloss, sice it only inhibits Dht(derivative of testosterone), your hair will still be attacked by the remaining dht or even androgens if your hair is sensitive to them. So estradiol(estrofem or progynova) and an anti-androgen cyroterone acetate(which is far more effective than spiro) will keep your serum and scalp testosterone(androgens) at bay for you. I'm convinced that estadiol(estrogen) is the way to go, since it actually stimulate follicles to regrow on its own and it is simply protecting the follicle from androgens.
The reason why women lose hair after coming off of BirthControl pills (and why they lose it after having a baby) is because their estrogen levels fall and that causes the hair to fall out.

Hope this helps,
~Nicky
User avatar
Nicky
New
 
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:37 am


Return to Transition

coiae

Consonance of Identity and Expression


© 2000 - 2012 The Ultimate Paradigm